New Banjo Player - 3 Finger vrs Clawhammer?

dgaemc2 · #1 01-05-2015, 10:35 PM

Hello everybody,

I purchased a new banjo a few days ago and am really having fun with it learning rolls and simple songs using the 3 finger method (Scruggs). Surprisingly, I am adapting fairly well using thumb, index and middle finger picks for 3 finger style banjo playing and will continue to work on it. I say "surprisingly" because I use flesh of thumb and 3 fingers when playing fingerstyle on guitar.

However, my main question is with regards to clawhammer banjo style.
I have watched a few instructional videos demonstrating this style, and I feel that I will actually have a harder time learning this style than 3 fingers banjo because it is so much different than I play even on guitar.

Is the clawhammer style mostly used for "back up rhythm" or is it also used with melody runs on the banjo? Do most clawhammer style players just use the flesh of their thumb and the back of their index and middle fingers when playing (no picks)? Do any of you play 3 finger style with picks and transition to clawhammer style in the middle of a song with your finger picks still attached?

Pardon my newbie questions, but I just want to learn more about banjo playing from some of the seasoned players on this forum. I am finding the banjo to be a fun instrument to play.

All responses are appreciated!

cu4life7 · #2 01-06-2015, 12:14 PM

There is no reason that you can't do both styles, though they are very different. Typically, 3 finger scruggs is that standard for bluegrass and a lot of other genres providing that driving banjo sound that we are so used to. Clawhammer is played using the thumb, index finger nail, and the nails on the other three fingers during the strum portion. I have found this style is a bit harder for me to pick up and I am still working on it. Clawhammer is the way to go if you want to play old time, or fiddle tunes, etc. Listen to The Stray Birds "Dream in Blue". She plays clawhammer wonderfully and you can get a feel for what I believe that this style is meant for. I would personally prefer 3 finger for playing in a group, and clawhammer if I wanted to play solo or as my primary backup instrumentation.

Typically, those who pursue clawhammer get an open back banjo and strive for a more rounded and tubby sound (more mellow), and the sruggs style guys love the loud and brash resonator banjos.

Also, the banjohangout is a great resource for all these styles and questions.

Dan Carey · #3 01-06-2015, 02:30 PM

I find myself struggling with clawhammer...I can come close...even get a few bars down pat some times, then BOOM! outta sink and outta tune.
Three finger is a bit more comfortable but i just don't have the speed needed for a lot of songs.

I've started taking clawhammer lessons from a pro and am still having a hard time!

Ya just gotta try!

Teleman52 · #4 01-06-2015, 05:22 PM

I would pick one style and stick with it whatever you do. At least when your starting out. They're so different that i think it's a mistake to try and learn both right from the onset.

If you like bluegrass music 3 finger, if you like old time, clawhammer. Though you can certainly use both in either style I think this is a good simple rule

dgaemc2 · #5 01-06-2015, 08:01 PM

Thanks for the responses everybody!

Yes, I am definitely focused on 3 finger for now and will probably stick with it for months because I am more comfortable with it and I love rollin'!

So basically, when people play clawhammer style, they don't use finger picks - correct? Also, are there ever any upstrokes while playing clawhammer? I haven't seen any in the few examples that I have seen.

Dan Carey · #6 01-06-2015, 08:58 PM

Everyone's clawhammer technique is a bit different. The are guidelines to get the 'sound' but there's always a different approach to the same end. Try it when you're comfortable. A few lessons won't hurt, either!

Rudy4 · #7 01-07-2015, 10:03 AM

All good advice so far. What you should do is isolate the type of playing that appeals to you and work towards that end.

IMHO strict adherence to "three finger style" will impose a lot of limits on your playing and the types of music that it fits into well, unless your only interest is playing bluegrass. There are exceptions, but that's a fair generalization.

Clawhammer style is more adaptable to multi-style play, but be aware that there are a raft of sub-genres to what is loosely known as "clawhammer" style.

I highly advise you broaden your advice by joining and spending some time on www.Banjohangout.org , with 90,000 members you'll find a multitude of playing styles represented.

Black Flag · #8 01-07-2015, 11:01 AM

I've been playing and teaching clawhammer style since 1958, so I guess I get to have an opinion on this. The really difficult part is learning the basic CH pattern, including drop thumb notes on the inside strings, which is counter-intuitive compared to the Scruggs-style pattern, and takes a lot of practice before it's ingrained in your muscle memory and sounds like anything. After you've got that down, learning tunes becomes pretty straightforward.

It's ok, even commonplace to use a reversed fingerpick on the back of the lead finger to get a cleaner sound, either the index or second. There are a few types of picks that work much better than others--many people like either the Fred Kelly Freedom pick or the Joel Hooks thimble pick.

Save yourself the trouble of having to unlearn a bad habit and forget about trying to mix in up-strokes--CH is all down strokes and trying to change that will only lead you astray.

Wander over to the Banjo Hangout and ask questions--you're likely to get a lot of informed responses.

Chris

dgaemc2 · #9 01-07-2015, 11:36 AM

Excellent feedback everyone and much appreciated!

darylcrisp · #10 01-16-2015, 10:56 PM

i agree with starting i would probably pick one style or the other and work on that.

clawhammer is one of those things that all of a sudden you just get the feel for after working on it seemingly forever.

check zepps country music, he used to have "clear head videos" that show the back of the banjo with a clear head so you can see the hand movements-Donald Zepp is a great player and wonderful teacher(he has a lot of stuff on youtube as well so you can see/hear a lot of songs). He shows mult variations of the clawhammer style.
http://zeppmusic.com/frameset.htm look to the list on the left and you will see the clearhead video offerings.

and, once you pick that up, be sure to check into Steve Baughman-a wonderful fingerstyle guitar player, who has a real good DVD on clawhammer guitar(lots of youtube on steve as well).

http://www.celticguitar.com/clawhammer-guitar.html

good luck and keep us posted
d

fatt-dad · #11 01-17-2015, 08:56 AM

I play the mandolin and guitar. I'd rather sit down with a clawhammer banjo player and work up duets than a Scruggs banjo player and work up duets. In a band setting, sure Scruggs is the cornerstone of bluegrass. I just don't play bluegrass and enjoy more of the old-time and Celtic tunes that fit both my instruments and the clawhammer banjo.

f-d

Mike@bc · #12 05-03-2015, 10:45 AM

I am also just getting started with a banjo and have found "How to play clawhammer banjo in 8 essential steps" on you tube very helpful if you go that direction.

dgaemc2 · #13 05-05-2015, 08:10 PM

Thanks for your reply Mike@bc!

I have opted to learn Scruggs style first, progressing fairly well and enjoying the ride!

Definitely check out the Banjo Hangout Forum if you haven't already. I find it to be very friendly, informative and helpful all things banjo!

Best of luck on your banjo playing journey!

sweiss · #14 05-30-2015, 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dgaemc2

I purchased a new banjo a few days ago.........

I'm also new to the banjo and am having an experience similar to yours.

I initially thought I wanted to learn the Scruggs style until I heard some good clawhammer playing that just blew me away. So now I'm trying to learn clawhammer.

There's no question....it's hard to play using only downstrokes, but I'm going to try to do it right and not *******ize the style by using the upstrokes that my fingers are used to making. It'll be a challenge.

(I see that I've been censored for profanity. I'll have to show this to my ****szu dog....she'll be amused.)

DesertTwang · #15 05-30-2015, 08:07 AM

Clawhammer and Scruggs style are completely different kinds of music. Think of them like intricate fingerstyle, "guitar mood music" stuff vs. Strumming rock tunes. Your decision should depend on what music you want to play. Bluegrass? Three finger style all the way. Folk, roots, Americana, "old school mountain style?" Clawhammer. Most banjo players I know do one or the other, not both. I am very intrigued by the latter type of music, and recently had a friend and highly accomplished clawhammer player show me the basics. It was sobering.