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Old 02-15-2018, 04:34 PM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
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Hi Everyone,

I know there is a lot of discussion on Dazzo pickups but I have some more for users of this system! My guitar currently has the Amulet M and for whatever reason, it was just not a good match for my Taylor. I bought the Tonedexter and love it so I am currently looking for a new system to try with it. The easiest solution would be the K&K but I am hesitant to go to the super glue route. I do however like the benefit of a passive system that also can amplify percussive techniques.

Dazzo pickups have always been on my radar but Teddy's site is pretty terrible. I know he was playing around with different bass response numbers for his pickups so my first question is; did he ever settle on one? That's one big reason why I never ordered one, I did not want to have to experiment with the bass response.

Secondly, I noticed on his web page and YouTube that he has a newer installation method. The point of the pickup/triangle is pointed at the bridge pins and is fairly close to them. However, in the past the pickups seemed to be a bit further from the bridge pins with the point of the pickup/triangle facing away from the bridge pins. Has anyone compared these methods or talked to Teddy about them? It looks like the newest method makes for an easier install. He also claims in the video that the new method sounds best.

Thirdly and most importantly, is the epoxy that Teddy uses actually better than the superglue method? What I mean by that is, I have read how the super glue can get into the wood making future installs of the Amulet or even the tru-mic pickup sound thin. Does the epoxy get into the wood as well or is it better? Also, does Teddy ship the epoxy with the pickups or do we have to go out and purchase it separately?

Lastly, I will most likely go passive but is there any benefit to the misi preamp approach?


Thanks!
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Old 02-15-2018, 04:53 PM
ken.han ken.han is offline
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I just installed Dazzo on my Larrivée OM-40. I'll try to answer some of your questions:

1. Teddy had me take a picture of my bridge plate for him, and then recommended 70s. I have no experience with other Dazzo pickups, but I'm very pleased how balanced everything sounds from low to high. I followed the installation instructions on his website. Pretty straight forward.

2. I opted for passive without the preamp, because I intend to use it with my existing Helix LT, which has an adjustable input impedance. I am going to use Helix's builtin expression pedal for volume, and another expression pedal I happened to have lying around to adjust eq balance on the fly. It sounds loud and clear, with no discernible noise. Same when I plugged it direct into my Keith McMillen K-Mix and went direct into Logic.

3. The sound, sure, it's not a condenser mic, but it is very good.

4. I used Eventide Equivocate plugin inside Logic, which lets you eq match another sound source, like audio track, or, in my case, a cheap $50 condenser mic I have. When the eq was applied to my Dazzo track, the resulting sound was a very convincing approximation of the mic. My next step is to produce an impulse response file from this, and load it on to my Helix. Should work great. I think this is similar to what ToneDexter (seems really popular on this forum lately) is doing.
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Old 02-15-2018, 04:56 PM
ken.han ken.han is offline
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5. I accidentally discovered that Dazzo will pick up my voice if I sing through the sound hole! Have you seen Phil Keaggy do this? He has a mic inside, which he then loops his guitar parts and voice parts. The Dazzo doesn't pickup my voice with as much clarity in the high end, but it was a nice surprise. It picks up body tapping and fret tapping pretty well also. I think if I boost the Dazzo and accentuate the higher frequencies, it might lead to interesting result singing into it.
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Old 02-15-2018, 08:58 PM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ken.han View Post
I just installed Dazzo on my Larrivée OM-40. I'll try to answer some of your questions:

1. Teddy had me take a picture of my bridge plate for him, and then recommended 70s. I have no experience with other Dazzo pickups, but I'm very pleased how balanced everything sounds from low to high. I followed the installation instructions on his website. Pretty straight forward.

2. I opted for passive without the preamp, because I intend to use it with my existing Helix LT, which has an adjustable input impedance. I am going to use Helix's builtin expression pedal for volume, and another expression pedal I happened to have lying around to adjust eq balance on the fly. It sounds loud and clear, with no discernible noise. Same when I plugged it direct into my Keith McMillen K-Mix and went direct into Logic.

3. The sound, sure, it's not a condenser mic, but it is very good.

4. I used Eventide Equivocate plugin inside Logic, which lets you eq match another sound source, like audio track, or, in my case, a cheap $50 condenser mic I have. When the eq was applied to my Dazzo track, the resulting sound was a very convincing approximation of the mic. My next step is to produce an impulse response file from this, and load it on to my Helix. Should work great. I think this is similar to what ToneDexter (seems really popular on this forum lately) is doing.
Thanks for that! Does Teddy ship the epoxy/glue with the pickup?
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Old 02-15-2018, 09:04 PM
ken.han ken.han is offline
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no, i got the epoxy for $4 from walmart
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Old 02-15-2018, 09:15 PM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
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Thanks. That's odd that he doesn't send some with the pickup.
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Old 02-16-2018, 12:52 AM
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Does anyone know if Dazzo's can replace K&K's, or does the superglue residue in the saddle after the K&K is removed create problems the way it's reported to do with Trance pickups?

Last edited by dogdog49; 02-16-2018 at 01:01 AM.
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Old 02-16-2018, 08:33 AM
JStotes JStotes is offline
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A while back Teddy was up in Seattle and he came over to my house to install a pickup in my 910 Taylor. I’ve been, and am, a fan of K&K and have had several installed in various guitars.

In this particular guitar I had put in a JJB to see how it compared to the K&K units I had. Long story short, I wasn’t as happy with the JJB so I was looking for another solution. I had met a Teddy at a festival and was interested in his pickups so I thought I’d give them a try.

The install was a little bit difficult because of the previous install using glue. Teddy worked diligently to make sure the area was clear of any remnants of the earlier install.

He tried several different models in order to get the exact sound I was after and we found a variant of the 70 model he had with him that was perfect. It is the best plugged in sound I have worked with and will be what I use in any new installs moving forward.

I can plug straight in to my Schertler JAM 150 and get a really good sound but it works best when I use my Red Eye preamp.
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Old 02-16-2018, 12:38 PM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
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The two worries still have to do with the bass response and installation. It sounds as though Teddy is still experimenting with bass responses, especially when installing his pickups into the guitars of people who are lucky enough to meet up with him. I live in Canada so not sure how much I want to experiment with that.

The installation seems difficult, although his video tutorial makes it seem dead simple. I just wish I knew if the epoxy that he uses is better than the super glue method.
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Old 02-16-2018, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petty1818 View Post
The two worries still have to do with the bass response and installation. It sounds as though Teddy is still experimenting with bass responses, especially when installing his pickups into the guitars of people who are lucky enough to meet up with him. I live in Canada so not sure how much I want to experiment with that.

The installation seems difficult, although his video tutorial makes it seem dead simple. I just wish I knew if the epoxy that he uses is better than the super glue method.
I agree. On some level, as good as the Dazzo may be, it seems like the company is not at the commercial level of other well regarded products. No offense intented toward teddy or Dazzo products. A lot of players seem to like them. For that reason I am going with the K&K as a long standing, tried-and-true product. I'll shape tone with a pedal board preamp like my Fishman Platinum Pro EQ or I might try a RedEye again if the Fishman isn't rocking my world.
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Last edited by Groberts; 02-16-2018 at 10:52 PM.
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Old 02-16-2018, 01:04 PM
ken.han ken.han is offline
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Why not ask him directly? Teddy is pretty good about answering questions.
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Old 02-16-2018, 04:14 PM
Br1ck Br1ck is offline
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OK, here's the deal.

The marketplace wants a one size fits all product like the K&K. A K&K will sound OK in almost anything. Slap them in, play and be happy. Never going to be really good IMHO, might need a preamp with a bunch of EQ to sound decent. But, and I feel the same way about the Taylor pickup systems, they will plug and play and not be horrible like an under saddle pickup.

Teddy is not playing around with his frequency responses. He is specifically tailoring different pickups for different applications. Where you would put the same K&K in a parlor or a dread, you put the right response Dazzos in the individual guitar you have. I have two PONO parlor guitars identical in all but one way. One is a 12 String. The set that was perfect for the six was too bassy for the 12 so they got a different set.

In addition to frequency, Teddy is using a wood casing in addition to his original, for a slightly different tone, and you can now get an onboard pre with the exact impedance match for Dazzos. So not only do Dazzos inherently sound better due to the three dimensional pickup sensors, but you get the proper frequency response match for your guitar, and the exact impedance input if you go the pre amp route.

Now all of this is worthless if you are the kind of player who shows up to an open mike with K&Ks and plugs directly into a board with 600 ohm input impedance and thinks it is marvelous. I hear the harsh piezo tone like this all the time. Simple impedance mismatch. Many if not most players are ignorant of this most basic issue. That's fine if they don't care.

Dazzos are for those who do. Yes, more trouble to consult with Teddy to get the right set, but a willingness to do so will be rewarded. Run Dazzos with a Dazzo pre or a RedEye, and you can pretty much forget about EQ issues. They are a rich, acoustic sounding set up. I'm not chasing the Holy Grail, but I do want to sound pretty good.

And there is another thing. Teddy Randazzo pickups will never be a final product. I don't believe they will ever reach a finished state which people with the financial resources want to ever be willing to back a high production venture.

Teddy will be incrementally improving his pickups until the day he dies. And I don't believe you could ever convince him to give up control of the building of them either.

K&K minis will continue to dominate the pickup market because they work for many, many people. Dazzos will always be a one man shop IMHO, with word of mouth marketing and a web page to match, but oh, do they bring a smile to my face.

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Old 02-16-2018, 05:34 PM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Br1ck View Post
OK, here's the deal.

The marketplace wants a one size fits all product like the K&K. A K&K will sound OK in almost anything. Slap them in, play and be happy. Never going to be really good IMHO, might need a preamp with a bunch of EQ to sound decent. But, and I feel the same way about the Taylor pickup systems, they will plug and play and not be horrible like an under saddle pickup.

Teddy is not playing around with his frequency responses. He is specifically tailoring different pickups for different applications. Where you would put the same K&K in a parlor or a dread, you put the right response Dazzos in the individual guitar you have. I have two PONO parlor guitars identical in all but one way. One is a 12 String. The set that was perfect for the six was too bassy for the 12 so they got a different set.

In addition to frequency, Teddy is using a wood casing in addition to his original, for a slightly different tone, and you can now get an onboard pre with the exact impedance match for Dazzos. So not only do Dazzos inherently sound better due to the three dimensional pickup sensors, but you get the proper frequency response match for your guitar, and the exact impedance input if you go the pre amp route.

Now all of this is worthless if you are the kind of player who shows up to an open mike with K&Ks and plugs directly into a board with 600 ohm input impedance and thinks it is marvelous. I hear the harsh piezo tone like this all the time. Simple impedance mismatch. Many if not most players are ignorant of this most basic issue. That's fine if they don't care.

Dazzos are for those who do. Yes, more trouble to consult with Teddy to get the right set, but a willingness to do so will be rewarded. Run Dazzos with a Dazzo pre or a RedEye, and you can pretty much forget about EQ issues. They are a rich, acoustic sounding set up. I'm not chasing the Holy Grail, but I do want to sound pretty good.

And there is another thing. Teddy Randazzo pickups will never be a final product. I don't believe they will ever reach a finished state which people with the financial resources want to ever be willing to back a high production venture.

Teddy will be incrementally improving his pickups until the day he dies. And I don't believe you could ever convince him to give up control of the building of them either.

K&K minis will continue to dominate the pickup market because they work for many, many people. Dazzos will always be a one man shop IMHO, with word of mouth marketing and a web page to match, but oh, do they bring a smile to my face.

Six guitars and counting.
I do agree that a lot of people want a one size fits all solution. However, for me, I am totally fine with Teddy tailoring his pickups to specific guitars. I have never had an issue with that. My issue is that he doesn't really make it clear on his website (terrible by the way and really no excuse for it), what bass responses work best with different body shapes. A few people who have posted on here about how great Dazzo pickups are actually had Teddy install them, which not only means that they get placement correct but that Teddy can experiment with the bass response. For someone like me who lives in Canada, the thought of installing his pickup, experimenting and then having to send it back for a new bass response is just a bit much.

With that said, I know what I just wrote will come off as me criticizing Dazzo pickups. However, that's not my intent. I just felt as though your post was more of a sales pitch that led me to respond this way. I am generally interested in these pickups but I would really love to know more about the epoxy used and how it compares to super glue. I honestly don't mind experimenting with placement but I have two concerns.. one, I have no idea how hard or easy it is to remove the epoxy and start over and two, I was wondering if he had settled on a bass response which he seems to still be working on.
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Old 02-17-2018, 12:40 AM
Vancebo Vancebo is offline
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Petty, I will try and answer your questions. Teddy is choosing not to define what pickup goes in a particular instrument. He wants to be able to advise you on what pickup to get for your particular guitar and use. Then if it doesn’t work then he will trade you for another version or give you your money back. I agree, his website is not clear and not very helpful. I will tell you, most acoustic flattops will work well with 60’s 70’s or 80’s. If you have a big Martin dread then I would lean toward the 60’s. If it is a smaller bodied guitar, then 80’s do best. 70’s is the go to for most acoustic applications.

He prefers epoxy for two reasons. First, he believes it sounds superior to tape and superglue. Lastly, during his installation process he has the ability to adjust the position of each piezo until it sounds correct. With the 6 minute epoxy, it gives him a couple of minutes of positioning. He places the first piezo with the bass string attached then adjusts until that bass string sounds natural. Then he does the same with only the treble string attached.

Glue is glue. I can imagine there is always going to be glue residue in the fibers of the wood. I just can’t see it there. He uses brake cleaner (carefully) to treat the residue and scrapes the loosened epoxy. He also may do a little sanding. I use epoxy remover gel. I have tested the use of epoxy and remover on a piece of lumber I have and the wood wood looks fine. Thought it was prudent to do that before I tried it in a guitar. I am just as concerned as anyone for using these products on their guitars. I don’t worry about it anymore.

I have successfully installed several of these and I even have a beater guitar that has had Dazzos installed and uninstalled several times simply to experiment with the effects of positioning and bass responses. I am sure you could use the same tape that trance uses. He claims that the sound will not be its best.

He now has worked with Sunaudio (Sonny is the original preamp developer for FRAP) to develop an onboard preamp. They have their final design ready to roll. He claims he likes it better than the Red Eye. They will also come out with an off board version. I have one one the way.

Good luck. Call Teddy and he will take care of you.
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Old 02-17-2018, 10:17 AM
emmsone emmsone is offline
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Here's my input on the Dazzo's relating to your points

Superglue vs Epoxy : is one easier than the other? I would say no. Neither are complicated. Only real difference is you have to mix some epoxy yourself, superglue just comes straight out the bottle.
If you have a mirror and some battery led lights to go in the guitar while you are doing the install to keep your eye on whats going on that helps.
With the epoxy you can actually 'tweak' the install as the epoxy does not set hard for several minutes. This does mean you have to hold it in place slightly longer initially(vs superglue, but its still only a few minutes) and if you do try and move them slightly, be aware you will probably be automatically heavy handed with initial movements as its hard to be minimal when you can't see your hands, so a tip for any tweaking is, try and barely move them. If you put them where you want them to be the first time, great! With superglue (ie K&K/JJB) you put the pickups in, hold them in place, 30 seconds later you're done. But if you aren't as accurate as you'd like theres nothing you can do.
I think you could install then Dazzo's with superglue, tape, blue tac, double sided tape, etc as adhesive is adhesive, but clearly Dazzos were developed using epoxy and as such the resonance of the pickup works with the epoxy where it may not with an alternative.
Teddy didn't provide the epoxy, i got mine from the DIY shop, but there are some brands that he recommends above others, he might even supply some along with your order if you ask him to.

Install method : I installed my Dazzo's myself, did a couple of 'dry fits' without the glue and if you then know whats coming, its fairly straightforward.
I used the newest and now recommended "pointing through the bridge pins" method, I only have the one guitar with Dazzos in and only used this method so I can't compare to the previous version, I just went with what Teddy recommended, and it works. Personally I do think it makes more sense like this. I also think it actually enables easier installs as its easier to 'locate' the position when you have the pins to work with.
Theres no reason why, especially after some dry fit testing, you couldn't install these with a simple self made cardboard template a la K&K/JJB/Trance etc but you can go either way, template or no template and it should work both ways.


Bass responses : Its already been mentioned, but Teddy has several different bass responses available to suit your guitar, its not that he hasn't decided out which bass response is 'the one'. What I actually did after we had spoken was to send Teddy a good quality recording of the guitar and he came back with which response he recommended and that has fit perfectly. The ones he suggested very much match my guitars own responses.

I haven't had to remove the pickup (and hopefully won't have to), but the way epoxy holds means that you should be able to pop them off with good pressure under a corner from a razor blade.

Preamps/Mi-Si : I went for the Mi-Si option. Other than the fact i still haven't acquired a European charger plug for it yet and as such have to keep an international adapter with me, i'm quite happy with it. Personally I decided that I was going to do all my EQing with a mixer and couldn't afford and don't already have an external preamp. Having the Mi-Si means I don't need to worry so much about my impedance either, thats solved before the signal leaves the guitar. I go into the mixer via a passive DI box and an xlr cable mostly for conveniences sake.
I also find having the tone control is handy, its basically now set where I need it and hence I currently don't really use it that often, i've mounted it so its harder to reach but so i won't knock it accidentally when rolling volume up or down.

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