All Koa versus all Mahogany

[SprintBob]

Hey Folks,

Would appreciate your insight and experience. I currently own a Taylor 522e 12 fret. It's a wonderful guitar and I bought it when I started to learn fingerstyle a few years. Since that time I have filled my collection with an 812ce, a Taylor GS7 (cedar/rosewood), a Collings OM1A (Adi/hog), and a Robinson 12 fret slope shoulder dread (spruce/hog). I don't play a lot of blues (if any really) and what I am finding is that I reach more for my spruce/hog or rosewood guitars more than the 522e. I think I like the extra emphasis on the high end and projection I get with the other tonewood choices versus an all hog guitar.

About a year ago, I played an all Koa Taylor K-24 and it stuck with me. It seemed to have the warmth of an all Hog guitar but with something extra not only in the low end but also on the high end. It was like mahogany with a boost. I'm curious if those on this forum who own or have owned one or the other could confirm or add to my impression.

I'm considering putting the 522e up for sale to help fund an all Koa replacement. Thanks!

[Earl49]

You seem to have a good handle on your tone preferences. I recently played a 522 twelve feet at my local shop that struck me as one of the sweetest sounding Taylor guitars I've ever played. It was nice enough to drag my wife back to that store the next weekend, and she concurred. No I did not buy it - I am pretty serious about downsizing, and no new wood guitars will come home.

I currently own two Taylor koa guitars - a koa / spruce GS and an all koa 424 LTD in GA size. They are both quite nice, but the 424 was acquired a few years ago. To replace it would take a K24 at twice the price. That one will be the last wood guitar I ever part with. Koa has its own tonal flavor which is brighter than mahogany. It can start out a little anemic in the low's but loosens up with play time.

Pieces of koa can vary tonally quite a bit. Although Taylor has a good handle on building with it these days, I would still want to play that particular guitar first, rather than ordering on faith. I have tested a couple of high-end ones that were "meh" in terms of tone. Beautiful wood and excellent build quality, but really nothing to write home about tonally. I would save up and be sure to take along your best guitar as a comparison when you go shopping.

[Tony Burns]

I own a goodall AKS ( Koa back and sides with sitka top -standard size )
thou not a taylor - Goodall has a good reputation for Koa guitars .
they say koa is a cross between mahogany and rosewood - i dont find this as the case , thats a generalization which doesnt make sense to me -
My concern is that you should do a side by side test with a Hog taylor and a koa taylor - and not listen to anybody as to how to discuss tone, it might send you in the wrong direction .
That 12 fret Taylor you have is a excellent model -something special about a 12 fret -you might miss it .

Koa is unique in its sound- but its not everyones cup of tea -personally I like koa, and hog -
cant say one is better than the other - thou different

[jpmist]

Originally Posted by SprintBob

Hey Folks,

... It was like mahogany with a boost. I'm curious if those on this forum who own or have owned one or the other could confirm or add to my impression.

I'm considering putting the 522e up for sale to help fund an all Koa replacement. Thanks!

If you managed to avoid me banging the table until now. . .

Before you sell the 522e try a $7 set of Ernie Ball Aluminum Bronze strings. You might decide to keep it.

My 322 had Elixar Phos Bronze when I bought it used and the change in tone when I replaced them with the Aluminum Bronze strings the difference was really dramatic. It took away the darker coloring an all hog guitar has by adding the crisper tone of a spruce top.

[ifret]

Originally Posted by Earl49

Koa has its own tonal flavor which is brighter than mahogany.

This is my experience as well. The koa has more of that high end sparkle.....pretty good tonal balance too. The low end lacks some, when I compare it to my rosewood and ovangkol, but it has its own voice, which can give your stable a nice variety. Plus, a GA vs another GC, might be something to consider. The K24's are special.....you NEED one....haha.

[OneMansGuitar]

Mahogany tops take longer to break in and open up than spruce or cedar tops, but they still sound good brand new.

Koa tops take a LOT longer to break in and depending on how they are braced can sound like there is a lot of tone trapped in there waiting to be set free.

But I still like the sound of them. I just have never heard a new guitar with a koa top that had the 3D depth and resonance of a koa topped guitar with decades of playing under the hood.

[SprintBob]

Thanks for the feedback so far. Trust me that I know my 522e 12 fret is one of nicest guitars out there. I don't want to make a change I'll regret for sure. I think where I find the 522 lacks for me is fingerstyle, it seems a bit too biased towards warm and mellow and I'd like to get more sparkle. Since I play fingerstyle 60-70 percent of the time, that is why it does not get played as much as I like. I have gotten into flatpicking and it seems like with the right pick, the guitar does seem to brighten up. If I play it with my Blue Chip, Wegen, or Charmed Life picks, it's the warm and mellow response. If I switch to a Fred Kelly or V-Pick, it brightens up a lot.

I took the Elixir's off of it on day one in spring 2013 when I got it. I've had good results with LaBella, Martin Retro's, and Thomastik Infeld Plectrums. I tried a set of the Ernie Ball Aluminum Bronze and they just did not work for my ears. I might try them again, sometimes you get a bum set. Interestingly enough, I just put a set of the Power Pins on it and that did seem to add sustain and open up the top end a bit better.

Unfortunately I'm in an area where I cannot try a Koa guitar currently as the local GC's and my other local shops will not stock them because there is not a good market for the higher end acoustics. I have a good relationship with Sweetwater so it may be worth $100 (return shipping cost) to order one and live with it for a couple of weeks and decide if I want to keep it.

[Bax Burgess]

I buy corian saddle blanks from Luthiers Mercantile International. What corian does when compared to micarta, bone, and tusq (my experience is limited to the LMI corian) is to clarify and amplify with no apparent loss of sustain. It can rev a guitar too much, but on the right guitars...

[tadol]

I would be very hesitant to order an all koa guitar from anyone other than a really excellent luthier - the material is too inconsistent in density and pattern to build properly by measurement only - when its good, its very, very good, but when its bad -

[ljguitar]

Hi SB

I've played a lot of All Koa or Koa side/back guitars, and my experience has been that it really depends on the builder and his/her skills.

I've played Koa guitars which are harsh, and Koa which are mellow.

I own a Kronbauer Koa/Sitka mini-Jumbo which super-projects/kicks-like-a-mule and with Phosphor Bronze strings sings wonderfully with a very even balanced tone across the total range. Put 80/20 strings on it and it turns into a buzz saw with a most unpleasant mid range flavor.

If buying Koa guitars I always recommend play-before-pay. I've played Taylor Koa guitars of the same wood combo and same model which
sounded radically different from each other.

I've experienced little consistency when it comes to Koa guitars…especially manufactured (as opposed to solo-builds or small-factory builds).

[musicman1951]

I've only played one koa guitar, but it was wonderful - a Martin 000K Authentic. It was in the local store and I only did finger picking, but it was perfect for that. Impressive sustain on that guitar (no idea what the strings were).

I feel the same way about all Hogs.

[pops]

Try a set of GHS white bronze strings. Not as bright a phosphor bronze at the beginning, but hold their sound much longer without getting dead. Quite nice.

[Hurricane Ramon]

Originally Posted by SprintBob

Hey Folks,

Would appreciate your insight and experience. I currently own a Taylor 522e 12 fret. It's a wonderful guitar and I bought it when I started to learn fingerstyle a few years. Since that time I have filled my collection with an 812ce, a Taylor GS7 (cedar/rosewood), a Collings OM1A (Adi/hog), and a Robinson 12 fret slope shoulder dread (spruce/hog). I don't play a lot of blues (if any really) and what I am finding is that I reach more for my spruce/hog or rosewood guitars more than the 522e. I think I like the extra emphasis on the high end and projection I get with the other tonewood choices versus an all hog guitar.

About a year ago, I played an all Koa Taylor K-24 and it stuck with me. It seemed to have the warmth of an all Hog guitar but with something extra not only in the low end but also on the high end. It was like mahogany with a boost. I'm curious if those on this forum who own or have owned one or the other could confirm or add to my impression.

I'm considering putting the 522e up for sale to help fund an all Koa replacement. Thanks!

It was quite astonishing the the first time I heard local Hawaiians playing Koa guitars on my first trip there in 1975 .

There were rosewood & mahogany Gibson's , Martin's and other brands there side by side when I asked what the Koa guitars were made from , being I was not aware of what Koa was at the time when I first visited Hawaii .

After I moved there in the 80's I furthered my knowledge of that special one of a kind mahogany found only on the Hawaiian islands .

There is only one remaining forest where it is logged , on The Big Island Hawaii .

Maui has one as well but very limited logging allowed . The islands of Oahu ( Pearl Harbor ) Kauai (< Puff the Magic Dragon from Hanalei ) Lanai ( Dole Pineapple ) , Niihau have lost their forests .

Molokai like Maui has little or no logging allowed on what is left there of their Koa forests .

There is a ongoing project to restore these magnificent forests that once existed in plenitude on all the island's of Hawaii .

< https://www.ctahr.hawaii.edu/forestry/Data/IUFRO.html >

I love the sound of Koa , it's among my favorites like , cherry , walnut and mahogany for tonewoods . I own a soprano Kamaka 1950's series ukulele , it's wonderful to listen to and looks great ,. It is a type of Koa called :

[ Blonde ]

A Koa log has to sit outside exposed to the elements for at least 100 years : to bleach out " blonde " I'm told .

Aloha :

HR

[Hurricane Ramon]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi SB

I've played a lot of All Koa or Koa side/back guitars, and my experience has been that it really depends on the builder and his/her skills.

I've played Koa guitars which are harsh, and Koa which are mellow.

I own a Kronbauer Koa/Sitka mini-Jumbo which super-projects/kicks-like-a-mule and with Phosphor Bronze strings sings wonderfully with a very even balanced tone across the total range. Put 80/20 strings on it and it turns into a buzz saw with a most unpleasant mid range flavor.

If buying Koa guitars I always recommend play-before-pay. I've played Taylor Koa guitars of the same wood combo and same model which
sounded radically different from each other.

I've experienced little consistency when it comes to Koa guitars…especially manufactured (as opposed to solo-builds or small-factory builds).

That sage'd advice I apply to all guitar purchases period .

Since I left the Big Island of Hawaii it's become quite the place for luthiers these days .

There were none in the 80's , all the luthiers were on the Main Island Of Oahu building ukuleles mainly for years .
That's changed . I'm moving back to The Big Island Hawaii Volcano-ville heh heh heh and , I'll probably get me a custom built locally made Koa guitar and or ukuleles .

Aloha :

HR

[Hurricane Ramon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71PyqZ2CZzA

The luthier who made that is on the Big Island Hawaii , that's where I'm parking it .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgHJzSUOewA

Aloha :

HR