music keys

[jseth]

Learn them all... and you will, if you keep playing long enough! Surely, you will have your favorites and some that are decidedly NOT favorites, but you should know them all...

Actually PLAYING SONGS that are in various keys is a much better way to digest and truly "learn" the different keys... things that are put into use tend to stay with you longer...

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by Ze.

In my theory i practice the keys coming from the C Major scale only neglecting the other keys of the circle of fifths (The # and b keys ) .Am i doing wrong for guitar and should i revise the other keys also .I am assuming those other keys are for instruments other than guitar (mostly ) and in my musical life i am never likely to play in a sharp or flat key .

If I can just weigh in here, though only to repeat something I already said.

Guitar music is played in many keys, but mainly the sharp keys: G, D, A and E. If anything, C is a little less common because you need that F barre chord too much (although there are common "cheats" to avoid the barre).

The flat keys are tougher on guitar (because of all the barres) which means guitarists tend not to play or compose in those keys.
That doesn't mean you never find them, certainly from players who have no problem with barres. (B major seems surprisingly common, although F major is still relatively rare.)

In jazz, meanwhile, the flat keys rule, because they suit horns. It's actually slightly more difficult for the average horn player to play in sharp keys than it is for guitarists to play in flat keys. As I understand it, it's not just about trickier fingering, but trickier intonation. So even quite skilled horn players will still prefer flat keys, by and large.

I agree with jseth - spend more time learning SONGS. That's the best way to make sense of theory (if you really want to make sense of theory, because you don't really have to). You will soon discover all those sharp keys in action....

[harpspitfire]

very good answers here- some explaining the relative minors and different minor scales- but to the OP, playing different keys is nothing more then, well, playing in a different key, so not to be confused, you need to know what the notes are in each different key- once you do, youll understand the chord structures- which are the same,only thing changes in different keys-- are different notes

[SunnyDee]

Originally Posted by harpspitfire

very good answers here- some explaining the relative minors and different minor scales- but to the OP, playing different keys is nothing more then, well, playing in a different key, so not to be confused, you need to know what the notes are in each different key- once you do, youll understand the chord structures- which are the same,only thing changes in different keys-- are different notes

I would suggest it's much simpler than that. You don't need to "know what the notes are in each different key" in order to play in different keys, because the intervals in any given scale are always the same, which is why the chord structures are all the same. What you need to know is the pattern of intervals for the scale, how to make those intervals on the fretboard, and (often) where you are on the fretboard when you start making those intervals, not the individual note names in each key (though it never hurts to know more stuff). For chords, you need the general pattern of intervals for making major, minor, diminished, etc, but, again, not the name of every note in every chord in every key.

[fazool]

Originally Posted by Ze.

....I am assuming those other keys are for instruments other than guitar (mostly ) and in my musical life i am never likely to play in a sharp or flat key .

seriously?

[FwL]

Originally Posted by SunnyDee

I would suggest it's much simpler than that. You don't need to "know what the notes are in each different key" in order to play in different keys, because the intervals in any given scale are always the same, which is why the chord structures are all the same. What you need to know is the pattern of intervals for the scale, how to make those intervals on the fretboard, and (often) where you are on the fretboard when you start making those intervals, not the individual note names in each key (though it never hurts to know more stuff). For chords, you need the general pattern of intervals for making major, minor, diminished, etc, but, again, not the name of every note in every chord in every key.

It's even simpler than that, really. Unless the OP plans on being an improvising musician of some sort they don't even need to worry about much more than a few of the commonly used chord shapes and learning songs from whatever source seems appropriate.

[SunnyDee]

Originally Posted by FwL

It's even simpler than that, really. Unless the OP plans on being an improvising musician of some sort they don't even need to worry about much more than a few of the commonly used chord shapes and learning songs from whatever source seems appropriate.

In other threads, the OP said the goal is understanding and writing music, not playing the songs of others.

[Ze.]

Sunnydee i think you underestimate the information contained within the circle of fifths concerning chord progressions ,key ,relative minor and relationship between keys ...all i was asking is would i learn all the chords from the key of chord progressions in C,D,E,F,G,A,B (would i have to learn the keys of Bb,Eb,Ab,Db,F# ) .
Now i have done my improvising charts to study keys with the formula I ii iii IV V iv viidim i see it was a stupid question but this whole thread has taken my question into some wild and wacky directions to what i originally asked .Scales are not something i practice so i do forget the theory for building chords but its just a matter of looking up the formulas (i don't practice scales ) .The circle of fifths is invaluable for relationships in chord work .Magical even

[SunnyDee]

Originally Posted by Ze.

Sunnydee i think you underestimate the information contained within the circle of fifths concerning chord progressions ,key ,relative minor and relationship between keys ...all i was asking is would i learn all the chords from the key of chord progressions in C,D,E,F,G,A,B (would i have to learn the keys of Bb,Eb,Ab,Db,F# ) .
Now i have done my improvising charts to study keys with the formula I ii iii IV V iv viidim i see it was a stupid question but this whole thread has taken my question into some wild and wacky directions to what i originally asked .Scales are not something i practice so i do forget the theory for building chords but its just a matter of looking up the formulas (i don't practice scales ) .The circle of fifths is invaluable for relationships in chord work .Magical even

Not at all. I know what it contains. It just wasn't clear from your question that you did.

[FwL]

Originally Posted by Ze.

Sunnydee i think you underestimate the information contained within the circle of fifths concerning chord progressions ,key ,relative minor and relationship between keys ...all i was asking is would i learn all the chords from the key of chord progressions in C,D,E,F,G,A,B (would i have to learn the keys of Bb,Eb,Ab,Db,F# ) .
Now i have done my improvising charts to study keys with the formula I ii iii IV V iv viidim i see it was a stupid question but this whole thread has taken my question into some wild and wacky directions to what i originally asked .Scales are not something i practice so i do forget the theory for building chords but its just a matter of looking up the formulas (i don't practice scales ) .The circle of fifths is invaluable for relationships in chord work .Magical even

Well at least from that post I can finally figure out what you're really asking.

As far as the flat keys go if you get into jazz you'll start running into Bb and Eb to accommodate horn players. The rest, not so much. In classical music you can run into those more distant keys depending on the period and or style you check out. Stravinsky's Firebird Suite starts off in Ab minor - 7 flats for example.

One place you might not think of where knowing how to play in whacko keys comes in handy is if you play with a singer/songwriter who uses a capo.

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by Ze.

Sunnydee i think you underestimate the information contained within the circle of fifths concerning chord progressions ,key ,relative minor and relationship between keys ...all i was asking is would i learn all the chords from the key of chord progressions in C,D,E,F,G,A,B (would i have to learn the keys of Bb,Eb,Ab,Db,F# ) .

As I said before, for guitar music, learn the keys of C, D, E, G and A first, because they're the most common. F and B are rarer, and those others rarer still.
You seem to be thinking that here's something significant in keys based on the notes in the C major scale - or perhaps confusing keys and chords (each key has its own set of chords).

Still, it seems a slightly odd question to ask if you "have to" learn something. If your goal -as SunnyDee said - is to "understand and write" music, you should learn as much as you can, and you should be curious about everything.
My advice is simply about the order of learning things: common keys first (the easiest ones for a guitarist), which doesn't mean ruling out the rarer ones. The more you understand the common keys, the more the others will make sense.
And you should certainly study other people's songs.

Originally Posted by Ze.

Now i have done my improvising charts to study keys with the formula I ii iii IV V iv viidim

All major keys have the same formula.

Originally Posted by Ze.

Scales are not something i practice

Others will disagree, but I'm right with you here!
That is, scale practice is useful as finger exercise and (maybe) for learning note positions on the fretboard, but not for much else. You will understand music more by practising chords, in sequences within keys. And more still by studying songs. (Did I say that already? )

Originally Posted by Ze.

The circle of fifths is invaluable for relationships in chord work

Again, I agree. It's much more than just a diagram of the 12 keys.

[mattbn73]

Originally Posted by Ze.

I have heard the guitar referred to as a C instrument

think that's a lot of confusion right there. This simply means that the guitar is a "non-transposing instrument" (at least as regards key*). Try googling "transposing and non-transposing instruments".

The guitar being a "C" instrument simply means that when I guitarist reads C in music notation, he/she actually PLAYS C. ( not going to get into the Octave displacement issue.*)

Transposing instruments might read C on the page and "think C", but the actual sounded pitch is B-flat or E flat etc.