Bose L1-Falling out of love-replacement??

[AndyC]

I've been using the Bose L1 Model 2 with B2 bass module and T1 mixer as my principle set up for a while now - but I am getting less and less impressed with the sound quality, and would welcome any advice for a replacement system. (Although I do like the T1 mixer!)

I play a variety of venues, so I will need something that is equally capable of playing fairly small intimate restaurants at relatively low volume levels to something that is capable of playing loud busy pubs / bars (200+ people) at a much higher level. I also play a number of festival venues through the summer, so I need the option to hook up my system through a DI to the main PA.

I'm wondering if a multi system might be the answer? Something like a Schertler or an AER Compact for the smaller venues, and combine that with a powered speaker system for the bigger and louder venues? Would that make sense? I guess then that the smaller box would just become my monitor?

All input gratefully received.

Cheers.

[open-road-matt]

Hi Andy,
I went through a similar situation a couple of years ago. After over a decade of Bose use, I wanted a change.

I sold off my L1 Compact and my L1 Model 2 with 2 B1s and a T1 and bought a QSC K series system. I got the TouchMix8 mixer and a couple of K10s for mains and some K8s too.

After a bit of time with this set up, I found that I missed the portability, easy set up and "surroundy-ness" of the Bose. So I went shopping again and I feel like I've found a nice middle ground.

I bought a JBL Eon One. To my ear, it is more musical than the Bose, more sonically similar to the QSC stuff but even more portable than my L1 Model 2 and gives me some of that surround-sound quality.

I ended up buying two of them. I run my guitar, vocals and Porchboard (a low end rhythm instrument) into the TouchMix and then out to one JBL if I'm doing smaller shows or two for the larger, outdoor stuff.

I don't put the system behind me like I did with the Bose but use a little spot monitor on a table next to me.

This is a super flexible set up and can cover a wide variety of venues.

The only negative is that the EON One is a bit big and bulky. The new one that is coming out is supposed to be smaller. I haul them around with a little folding dolly cart. If you are doing something small and intimate, once you are set up it's fine but it looks a bit awkward to come lumbering into the venue carrying a subwoofer!

For that reason I'm pondering giving up my little spot monitor for a small acoustic amp that could adequately cover all the small stuff AND be my monitor for the bigger stuff. Sadly, there just isn't such a creature but that's a whole other thread.

Matt

[pipedwho]

The L1 Model 2 is one of the best sounding PAs I've heard. Every time I see a band that uses one, I'm impressed. Most regular PA speakers tend to have a sweet spot in the middle of the venue where it gets muddy off to the sides. Not the L1M2.

The real problem with them is that they can be 'too accurate' in that if your base tone isn't great, then the L1 just projects that tone, but much louder and evenly across the audience.

I use an AER Compact 60 and it has it's own character and works well for smaller venues. But, I get more even coverage with my Bose L1 Compact, albeit a flatter/truer sound than the AER. A few EQ tweaks and I'm happy with both.

The L1 Model 2 is awesome, and having played through one a few times I'm always impressed. But, not as impressed as when I'm in the audience listening to one from what would normally considered less than ideal seating.

For pubs where you want a hot spot of sound on the 'dance floor', conventional speakers can work better. A couple of QSC K10s and a big sub and you can deafen the people on the dance floor, while people at the back of pub can still talk to each other. With the L1 Model 2, it feels about the same volume everywhere in the pub, and doesn't have as dramatic a drop off as you move the 'back of the room'. That's ok for background ambient music, but not necessarily the best thing if you want to rock out hard with a few groupies up the front.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by AndyC

I've been using the Bose L1 Model 2 with B2 bass module and T1 mixer as my principle set up for a while now - but I am getting less and less impressed with the sound quality, and would welcome any advice for a replacement system. (Although I do like the T1 mixer!)

I play a variety of venues, so I will need something that is equally capable of playing fairly small intimate restaurants at relatively low volume levels to something that is capable of playing loud busy pubs / bars (200+ people) at a much higher level. I also play a number of festival venues through the summer, so I need the option to hook up my system through a DI to the main PA.

I'm wondering if a multi system might be the answer? Something like a Schertler or an AER Compact for the smaller venues, and combine that with a powered speaker system for the bigger and louder venues? Would that make sense? I guess then that the smaller box would just become my monitor?

All input gratefully received.

Cheers.

It does not surprize me that you have grown tired of your Bose system.

I think your on the right track some kind of multi system but at that point is starts to become a matter of how much money you are willing to spend.

I am guessing that your looking at least at a small mixer or front end rack system then a couple of good PA speakers( something in the quality range and better of say th e Line 6 Stage Source) etc.
The if you did not want to use just one PA speaker for the small venues than yes perhaps a good compact acoustic amp ( do you sing also ?)

[AndyC]

Thanks guys - very helpful so far!

[Al Acuff]

I bought an HK Audio Nano 608i system last year to replace a heavier Schertler Jam 400. I'm happy with it.

You can set up the 608i as a cube amp, a linear array, or a 2.1 stereo system and you can also control the vertical dispersion. It's a flexible design and it sounds clear and warm with plenty of dynamics. At 36 pounds it's easy to lift as well. By the way, I recommend getting the optional S-Connect Pole.

You can mix your sound wirelessly with an iPad and stream music via Bluetooth. There's also a newer Nano 602 system which is a more basic powered speaker version designed for use with an external mixer.

There's a lot of other great gear out there these days as well. It all sounds pretty good. If you're ready for a change there are many good choices. Have fun shopping!

[AndyC]

Originally Posted by KevWind

It does not surprize me that you have grown tired of your Bose system.

I think your on the right track some kind of multi system but at that point is starts to become a matter of how much money you are willing to spend.

I am guessing that your looking at least at a small mixer or front end rack system then a couple of good PA speakers( something in the quality range and better of say th e Line 6 Stage Source) etc.
The if you did not want to use just one PA speaker for the small venues than yes perhaps a good compact acoustic amp ( do you sing also ?)

Hi

Yes, I do sing - at the moment I put my guitar and vocals through a TC Helicon Play Acoustic, which also provides great harmonies.

I have to say I quite like the spec of that new Mesa Boogie acoustic amp - looking forward to seeing some reviews of that, and as you say in conjunction with some addititional quality powered speakers and a decent mixer it might give me the flexibility I need.

Budget is going to be around the same I paid for the Bose set up, which in $US would be around $2.5K to $3K I guess (I bought my kit in the UK and we poor Brits pay a big premium over USA prices...!)

[zhunter]

A decent multi input amp and an outboard powered speaker would probably work well in your situation. Now there are a lot of nice amps that can handle both guitar and vocals well. While personal taste certainly enters in, many options will more than get the job done. Most amps have a line out you can feed directly to a powered speaker.

I use Schertler amps and they sound good and have the features I need in a reasonable package. You can get there for less if you find a sound you prefer. Turned out to be Schertler for me. I also play direct to mixer to PA a lot and that works too.

In lieu of an amp, you might want to consider a spot monitor with a pass through to a powered speaker. I haven't found one that sounds as good as an amp but they are small, light, easy to set up and provide stage monitoring. This would mean bringing a powered speaker to every gig but the speakers are getting compact and light enough that it isn't that much setup overhead. And they can sound good. Even an 8".

hunter

[6L6]

For 99% of the places I play, my Fishman Loudbox Mini works perfectly and is never maxed out.

That said, I don't play noisy bars. I also own a Fishman Loudbox Performer and I'm sure that could handle any situation.

Biggest benefit? I can make it to and from my guitar in one trip!

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by AndyC

Hi

Yes, I do sing - at the moment I put my guitar and vocals through a TC Helicon Play Acoustic, which also provides great harmonies.

I have to say I quite like the spec of that new Mesa Boogie acoustic amp - looking forward to seeing some reviews of that, and as you say in conjunction with some addititional quality powered speakers and a decent mixer it might give me the flexibility I need.

Budget is going to be around the same I paid for the Bose set up, which in $US would be around $2.5K to $3K I guess (I bought my kit in the UK and we poor Brits pay a big premium over USA prices...!)

The Mesa does indeed look interesting, and that is about $1k. Be aware it only has phantom power on one channel (although the are little phantom power boxes or a mixer with phantom ) if you would need two channels with phantom.

[Goat Mick]

You might rekindle your love for the Bose after you start lugging speaker stands, speakers, a mixer and running cables and power to everything at every gig. There's not much out there that will fill every corner of a venue with good clean sound as effectively as the Bose systems, but if you're set on going a different route there are definitely some high quality alternatives out there. Personally I like the Alto products for powered speakers for acoustic acts. My gigging partner and I use acoustic amps for 99% of the venues we play, but when we have an outdoor gig or need to cover a large venue we just DI out of our amps into the mic inputs of his Alto speakers, balance the volumes and away we go. Very easy set up. We do the same thing with my Bose Compact, but we have to run through a mixer because of fewer inputs on the Bose, but it's still easy using my 8 channel Behringer mixer.

[martingitdave]

I think there was some excellent advice provided here. Can you financially swing the purchase of a new unit before you sell your Bose? I fear you might come to regret the decision to sell it prematurely. All of these solutions are compromises, and sometimes we get frustrated by one set of compromises, only to learn that the grass was not greener on the other side of the fence.

To date, like OpenRoadMatt, I haven't seen an acoustic amp product that sounds as good as proper PA speaker. However, there are few, if any PA speakers that have the necessary gigging features of an acoustic amp.

The benefit of a "modular" system is that your front end (TC Play Acoustic, Bose T1 Mixer, A&H Zed, QSC Touch mix, etc.) stays the same for every venue. You would then match the powered speakers to the venue. The problem with speakers on stands, relative to what you have, is the dispersion. You'd need more speakers to get the same coverage. That means more stuff to carry.

I ended up (shamelessly) copying OPenRoadMatt and getting the QSC Touch mix as the front end. I also will use the TC Play Acoustic as my front end in the case of playing purely solo. I then have a single compact PA speaker for small rooms, and one JBL Eon One, for medium sized rooms. If I needed to play in a noisy place, with higher volume, I take both. I place the Eon One in front of me, and use the small speaker as my monitor. The benefit is that I don't need speaker stands. My small speaker has a tilt stand, and the JBL Eon One is hand carry. I do not typically need to provide sound for large audiences. When I play a set or two at summer festivals, I always use the house sound and cross my fingers.

In your case, you might consider holding onto your Bose system and using the T1 mixer with a different speaker configuration. For instance, you could even consider renting an option or two before buying. Popular speakers are made by QSC, Yamaha, Line 6 Stage Source, Mackie DLM, etc.) Or, you can invest in one or more compact line array systems from HK Audio, JBL, like Matt above. I would try and decide if your concern is smaller rooms, larger rooms, or just the tone in general.

Good luck! Just remember, there is no Nirvana when it comes to sound reinforcement. We just experience various states of temporary contentment. Your current system is considered by many to be the holy grail. Of course, there is no perfect solution, but for some the Bose systems are the pinnacle. So, take your time and consider the alternatives.

[gfa]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

... Just remember, there is no Nirvana when it comes to sound reinforcement. We just experience various states of temporary contentment.

Sigh. This is wise. The madness will never end.

[AndyC]

Thanks again to all.

I've asked for some input over on the Bose forums - I can't believe the sound is as poor as it is for no reason, so maybe there's something I can do with the T1 EQ settings etc. I KNOW that I should be getting better results than I am from this system, but I'm finding it frustrating beyond belief that I can't dial it in.

[zhunter]

Originally Posted by AndyC

Thanks again to all.

I've asked for some input over on the Bose forums - I can't believe the sound is as poor as it is for no reason, so maybe there's something I can do with the T1 EQ settings etc. I KNOW that I should be getting better results than I am from this system, but I'm finding it frustrating beyond belief that I can't dial it in.

It is probably a preference thing. Once a month we have to play through a house provided Bose system and it doesn't work for me either. We offered to bring our own system (that is how much we don't care for it) but the owner requires we use the Bose. He has his reasons and they are beyond this discussion. It is necessary for his venue.

If you don't prefer it, you don't. Plenty do swear by Bose I know. And it is right for them. Not for me. Plenty of people like guitars that will never made my list. If you can afford it exercise preference. Or like we do once a month, learn to live with it.

hunter