What are the pros and cons of different finger board radiuses?

[perttime]

I believe a relatively flat fingerboard can make single note runs easier than a tight radius. In "classical" guitar, strumming big chords is done pretty sparingly - notes are more often played one-by-one, at times in very rapid succession.

[wcap]

Originally Posted by paulzoom

Why would you choose one over the other? Is one better for finger style or strumming? Is there a common one?

I have no idea.

As a player of 5-string banjos, a strat and a tele, classical guitars, 6 and 12 string steel string guitars, and mandolins, they're all just instrument fingerboards to me.

My left fingers sometimes feel slightly more cramped for space with really narrow guitar necks (e.g. my Martin 000-15), but that's about all that i really notice, and even that tends to be pretty much a non-issue after playing a given instrument for a bit.

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by wcap

I have no idea.

As a player of 5-string banjos, a strat and a tele, classical guitars, 6 and 12 string steel string guitars, and mandolins, they're all just instrument fingerboards to me.

My left fingers sometimes feel slightly more cramped for space with really narrow guitar necks (e.g. my Martin 000-15), but that's about all that i really notice, and even that tends to be pretty much a non-issue after playing a given instrument for a bit.

The main difference in feel is mostly in making barre chords. Barring those there's a bit about string benders and about consistent string height for the picking hand (especially for speedy pickers with a flatpick I would guess). In any given day I have gone between playing the 5-string banjo, a classical guitar, and a flattop without much issue adjusting, but again I would imagine if you are really at the top of your game and pushing the technical envelope smaller differences in specs can be more noticeable.

[patticake]

i find a very curved radius slows down my playing as i seem to have a little more trouble with my fretting hand, although for my playing a flat and less tightly curved radius are pretty much equal - i bought a steel string travel guitar with a flat radius and didn't even notice till my husband pointed it out

[AZLiberty]

Originally Posted by paulzoom

So what is the advantage of a flatter radius?

Easier to play open chords, easier to play up the neck. Better intonation up the neck as well.

Tighter radius is better for barre chords. My wife's ovation (super tight radius) is the easiest guitar ever to play barre chords on, but I can barely finger an A-chord without damping the adjacent strings.

Larrivees with the compound radius are my favorite.

[murrmac123]

Originally Posted by AZLiberty

Better intonation up the neck as well.

The fret board radius shouldn't have any effect on the accuracy of the intonation.

[Judson]

How does one even know what the fingerboard radius is on a specific guitar?

Looking at spec sheets on various Taylor guitars, I don't see any mention of it.

Martin specs mention a radius of the saddle ... but not the fingerboard.

[murrmac123]

The reason that the fretboard (sic) radius is not specified on manufacturers' spec sheets is that for each major manufacturer, the fretboard radius is a constant ... it doesn't vary from model to model, unlike scale length and nut widths, for example.

Martin guitars all have a 16" fretboard radius.
Taylor guitars all have a 15" fretboard radius.
Gibson acoustics have a 12" fretboard radius, (as do all their electrics AFAIK ).
Guilds have a 12" radius as well.

[Judson]

Thanks ... that's what I needed to know ... it's an issue I'd never even thought about before.

Originally Posted by murrmac123

The reason that the fretboard (sic) radius is not specified on manufacturers' spec sheets is that for each major manufacturer, the fretboard radius is a constant ... it doesn't vary from model to model, unlike scale length and nut widths, for example.

Martin guitars all have a 16" fretboard radius.
Taylor guitars all have a 15" fretboard radius.
Gibson acoustics have a 12" fretboard radius, (as do all their electrics AFAIK ).
Guilds have a 12" radius as well.

[Ned Milburn]

Originally Posted by MikeRGR

Not to hijack the thread but I would like to know why?? the fretboard has a radius.

If Im not mistaken classical (nylon strings ) guitars dont have a radius. I could be wrong about this.

Also on my guitar the saddle has a radius, so the strings over the soundhole follow the same radius. What is the reason for that.

Thanks in advance for the answers

mike

A few other posters commented on this. History and construction styles are likely the main reason for flat classical guitar radii. However, it seems that more classical players are requesting slightly curved fingerboards, which do indeed help with the barre. On some refrets I have done and on a recent classical guitar, I have blended a gentle radius on the frets, and mostly falling away from the 3rd string. This is a variation of a more extreme fingerboard/fret job I did on a friend's classical guitar that was inspired by classical upright basses (and cellos, I believe, too), which have a peak just under the 2nd string. (Why, I don't know?? Surely they weren't doing bar chords!?!?!)

Are you meaning that "on your guitar" with the radiused saddle, it is a classical guitar with flat fingerboard?? If yes, this is sometimes done to make right hand work easier, since strings will each protrude slightly from the plane made by their 2 adjacent strings.

Also, a small point touching on another poster's comment about string spacing needing to be wider. Certainly this is done, as was mentioned, to facilitate avoiding dampening adjacent strings when fretting notes. However, an increased string spacing is needed to avoid dampening adjacent strings because also the action height (concert action) is basically double that of a steel string guitar - Classical at concert action - 3.5mm-4.5mm 12th fret action compared to 1.9mm-2.25mm "medium" action for a steel string.

Guitars with too much of a radius, and a consistent rather than compound radius, can have troubles with bending. A client who played in the Halifax jazz fest a couple years ago had me do some fret work on a Warmoth neck he had just put on his Telecaster. The neck had a tight and constant radius. He couldn't bend notes without them "fretting out". So, I planed a compound radius into the frets and he was all set for his gig.

[lizzard]

To reiterate what's been said -- in general (in my experience and study)

Greater radius facilitated easier chording. The pointer and pinky have a wider reach that the ring and middle. BUT, especially if you have low action, bent notes "fret out" on the arc of the highly radiused fingerboard.

Flatter fingerboards are "more work" but the hand will eventually adjust and if you want crazy low action and tons of bends - you want flatter.

Classical guitars - as mentioned - have lower tension. The easier chording is an illusion. If they had more radius i think it would be even easier to chord.

Of course, If you've spent 20 years building the hands to play classical on a flat radius - you will have overcome this concern.

Likewise, If you play with higher action on a more radiused guitar - you will have built the hands to overcome this concern as well.

A compound radius attempts to marry these concerns with more arc in the low frets where many play more chords - gradually relieving to a fairly flat arc around 10 - 12 and higher where many tend to bend. This may have been more relevant thinking in the 70's and 80's.

To another posters point - go play some extreme examples of each and see what suits your style.

Good hunting

Chris

[Legolas1971]

Fretboard radius is one of the most important specs when I choose a guitar. Martin's and Larrivee's have a very comfortable radius for my hands. Martin's have a 16 and Larry's have a 17 (I believe). I have a difficult time playing Gibson's and Guild's because their radii is just too tight for me. Barre chords are harder to play as are single note runs on tighter radiused guitars for me.

Neck shape is also hugely important for me.....

[AZLiberty]

Originally Posted by murrmac123

The reason that the fretboard (sic) radius is not specified on manufacturers' spec sheets is that for each major manufacturer, the fretboard radius is a constant ... it doesn't vary from model to model, unlike scale length and nut widths, for example.

Martin guitars all have a 16" fretboard radius.
Taylor guitars all have a 15" fretboard radius.
Gibson acoustics have a 12" fretboard radius, (as do all their electrics AFAIK ).
Guilds have a 12" radius as well.

Guilds are 12" from the New Hartford plant, the Chinese ones are 16" the same as Martins. With all the factory changes and variations over the years it's hard to know what any given Guild might be, and we don't know what radius the new Oxnard Guilds will have yet.

Larrivee is 17", tapering to 21" at the neck join.

Rainsong is apparently 20", but it doesn't seem any flatter than a Martin or Larrivee to me.

[Ned Milburn]

FWIW, since it has been mentioned a couple times about classical guitars being easier to do the barre, don't forget, the thinnest classical strings have a much larger diameter than the thinnest steel strings. This adds to ease of the barre.

[Guitar1083]

Originally Posted by MikeRGR

Not to hijack the thread but I would like to know why?? the fretboard has a radius.

If Im not mistaken classical (nylon strings ) guitars dont have a radius. I could be wrong about this.

Also on my guitar the saddle has a radius, so the strings over the soundhole follow the same radius. What is the reason for that.

Thanks in advance for the answers

mike

classical guitars have a radius of 20inches, some Carvin guitars are specified as flat