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Old 08-28-2014, 07:43 PM
DASmusic DASmusic is offline
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Default help with writing melodies

Hi, I'm new to this website but I hope someone can help me with what I'm struggling with as a musician.
I've been playing guitar for a while now and I really want to start writing my own music as a solo musician. I know the basics of theory and scales and stuff. And when you sing over a chord progression you can sing any note from whatever key you're in.

But when I play a chord progression and sing, I don't sound in key unless I sing just the few notes in each chord. For example if I play an A major. It only sounds right if I sing A E or C#. And so on for other chords.
I'm a huge fan of Bob Dylan and Neil Young and I noticed a lot of their singing melodies are just the few notes in the chords they play. But when i write my own stuff in that same style it sounds emotionless and boring. What am I doing wrong? I want to write songs like those artists but I can't figure it out.
Thanks to anyone who can help. Much appreciated.
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Old 08-28-2014, 08:05 PM
ameetnsharma ameetnsharma is offline
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Take a simple melody like row-row row your boat. Say you're in C major.

Suppose we have the rhythm going...

1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and 1 and.... (swung eighth notes)

So the first three words of the melody... row, row, row, your... are on the 1,2,3... and then the "your" is on the "and" of the 3. And then "boat" is on the 4.

If you notice the notes that occur on the 1,2,3,4 are C, E or G.... all the other notes occur on the "and"s (D and F).

So we have the chord tones occurring on the strong beats (chords tone of a c major triad)... and the other notes working like passing notes on the "and"s. So that's one idea... have chord tones on strong beats...

Some basic ideas for melody (none of these principals are hard and fast, and are broken all the time):
1. Use chord tones on strong beats (especially the start and end of the phrase). use other notes in the key on the weak beats
2. Use the tonic center or chord tone as a pedal point in a melody, or just repeat it enough times in the melody.. Say something like, D C E C F C G C. This melody is anchored on the C... the ear hears the C more than the other notes... so the melody fits over the C major chord because of the predominance of the C in the melody.

Also don't be afraid to use notes outside the key sometimes... as passing notes.

So you get a kind of hierarchy of notes... start at the top (fits most easily) to the bottom (fits least easily).

1. Tonic of chord
2. Other chord tones
3. Notes in key not necessarily chord tones
4. All other notes (chromatic)

These are just my general loose thoughts...

Last edited by ameetnsharma; 08-28-2014 at 08:22 PM.
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Old 08-28-2014, 08:28 PM
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Couple of quickies: you can re-harmonize the chords and the melody can stray from the notes of the current chord in anticipation of the following chord

and etc.
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Old 08-29-2014, 03:10 AM
stanron stanron is offline
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A major chord is made from the first, third and fifth notes of the major scale.
There is one note in between each of these and two notes between the fifth and the octave of the first.

You use these as 'passing' notes, or steps between the chord notes. You can rest or prolong the chord notes with impunity. Use the in between notes as short stepping stones between the chord notes.

As you get experience doing this you will find ways of prolonging non chord notes for particular effect.
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Old 08-29-2014, 06:39 AM
DASmusic DASmusic is offline
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Thanks a lot everyone. I think I'm starting to understand it.
So basically chord tones should be the main part of the melody, and passing notes are there to make the transition between other notes more smooth?
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Old 08-29-2014, 09:40 AM
JonPR JonPR is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DASmusic View Post
Thanks a lot everyone. I think I'm starting to understand it.
So basically chord tones should be the main part of the melody, and passing notes are there to make the transition between other notes more smooth?
Yes.
But as you point out in your frst post, that's not enough on its own.

What makes great songwriters like Dylan and Neil Young stand out is (among other things) the organic strength of their phrasing. You hardly notice the technical aspects (like they're singing the chord tones), because you're so drawn in by the overall effect of the phrasing (not to mention the lyrics). It sounds intuitive, as if those lyrics couldn't have been sung any other way. Moreover, they had to be sung. Those are not words that live happily on a page (even Dylan's). They come alive when sung, and sung in that particular way.
They start with the emotion, with the theme, and then set it to music (melody and chords). They (probably) don't start with the music. It's about finding a musical shape for your feeling, not about finding feeling in an existing musical shape.

IMO, the trick is to let the melody (and the words if you have any) lead the whole process. You might start out with a chord (or 2 or 3) to kickstart the process, but as soon as you start singing you have to let the voice run the show. (The chords are only ever there in a supporting role.)
Try singing a phrase over just one chord to begin with. Find a shape for the phrase that feels comfortable to sing, but still sits on the chord.(ie starting and ending with chord tones).
Let the voice rule, and if it doesn't quite sit on that chord right - or demands a different chord - then change the chord. With each melody note you sing, try to feel where the tune wants to go next - should the next note be higher or lower than the last? by how much? Sing what feels right, and then find a chord that fits that note (if the current one doesn't).
Obviously words help tremendously here - so you can get into the feeling of the theme - but it's possible to work with nonsense words, or any old irrelevant phrase, just to have something to wrap your voice around, while you're thinking in pure melody.

One thing you always find songwriters saying is that good tunes seem to write themselves. Neil Young has said tunes are like rabbits - they pop up out of their holes when you're not looking.
Of course, it's a contradiction to try writing a song without trying! But you can try to get yourself into that open frame of mind, and try not to control it too much.

BTW, one thing I noticed very early on with Dylan, when I first started learning his songs (back in 1966), was a particular fondness he had for the 5th of a chord, which has a distinctive character. "Mr Tambourine Man" is a seductive melody (IMO) mainly because of the way it skips from 5th to 5th.
Code:
     CHORD: G           A                 D                G
    MELODY: D    D  C#  B    A   A    F#  F#   B   A   F#  D
CHORD TONE: 5    5  #4  2    1   1    6   3    5   5   3   5
            Hey Mis-ter Tam-bou-rine Man, play a song for me
.
     CHORD: (G)     D                 G               A
    MELODY: D    E  F#   A   A    F#  B   A   G   F#  F#  E   E
CHORD TONE: 5    6  3    5   5    3   3   2   1   7   6   5   5
            I'm not slee-py and there is no place I'm go-ing too
10 of those notes are 5ths, including the beginning and end of each line.
The end of the first line (or even its beginning) could easily have been harmonized with the D chord, but try it - how dull does that sound? Using G keeps it alive.

He does a similar thing in Blowin' in the Wind, on the first line of the chorus: "the answer my friend is blowin' in the wind". "Wind" is on the tonic note, but he harmonizes it with the IV chord (just like in Tambourine Man).

Neil Young does the same thing with "Helpless" - an audaciously simple tune, a 4-bar motif repeated throughout:
Code:
     CHORD: D          A         G
    MELODY:   F# F# F# E  E E F# E D D
CHORD TONE:   3  3  3  5  5 5 6  6 5 5
Notice no chord roots are sung, and the final tonic note is harmonized with the IV. This keeps the song in the air, unresolved. And the putting the tonic note on the IV chord contributes (IMO) warmth and re-assurance.
No surprise that Dylan stole this tune for Knockin' On Heaven's Door - it could have been one of his all along.

There are other similar lessons you can learn from any great songwriter, by detailed analysis of those moments that grab you in a song. Sometimes the expression is down to vocal style and delivery - or maybe arrangement, orchestration, studio effects - but sometimes you can trace it to a particular note-chord (or chord-key) relationship.

You should really get to know the emotional character of every note relative to a given chord. Not just the root, 3rd and 5th (which each have their own personality), but the 7th (b7 and maj7), 9th, sus4, 6th. That's the cast of players you work with.

And then there's note duration, rhythm and timing, etc.
Eg, syncopation adds energy and drama - starting a note before the beat instead of right on it.
Sustaining one note beyond its natural length is another trick - one Dylan used to be fond of; adds tension, making resolutions all the sweeter. (Check out his version of Man of Constant Sorrow - which I think he chose for that very quality - or One of Us Must Know, or Idiot Wind.)
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Old 08-29-2014, 12:56 PM
DASmusic DASmusic is offline
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Thanks for the help.
Now, you said let the voice lead the way. But when I do that all I feel comfortable with is chord tones. Is there any exercisers I can practice to change that? Or is that just how my music is meant to be? Ha. Sorry for all the questions. I really appreciate all the replies.
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Old 08-29-2014, 01:14 PM
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Play any chord in time and sing its major or minor scale up and down. Either sing the scale degrees (1,2,3,4,etc.) or sing the names of the notes. After a while your ear will learn all the passing notes...
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Old 08-29-2014, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DASmusic View Post
Thanks for the help.
Now, you said let the voice lead the way. But when I do that all I feel comfortable with is chord tones. Is there any exercisers I can practice to change that? Or is that just how my music is meant to be? Ha. Sorry for all the questions. I really appreciate all the replies.
May partially be technical issues of playing notes on the fly. Instead just play some chords and try to sing or hum something decent over the top. Then go back and try playing it on the guitar.
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Old 08-29-2014, 03:26 PM
ameetnsharma ameetnsharma is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DASmusic View Post
Thanks for the help.
Now, you said let the voice lead the way. But when I do that all I feel comfortable with is chord tones. Is there any exercisers I can practice to change that? Or is that just how my music is meant to be? Ha. Sorry for all the questions. I really appreciate all the replies.

Sounds to me like you're having trouble with making up melodies with a chord behind it already...

Maybe forget about the chords for now... and just try to come up with melodies alone... then later try adding chords to fit behind them.
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Old 08-29-2014, 06:02 PM
Davis Webb Davis Webb is offline
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There is a wealth of excellent technical information here that I cannot being to cover, but I can add a couple basics, if you don't know them.

Music is about mood. You create a mood through chords or melody, then enhance it with phrasing.

Major chords - happy, solid, assertive
Minor chords - sad, reflective, melancholy
Diminished - unresolved, tension, anticipation

So how you use these sets the mood for the song. You can do things like create reflective sad feelings, and then the next chord is a major to resolve them. Reggae does this a lot, but more on Reggae in a second with its "behind the beat" syncopation. So an Em followed by a G is pretty interesting, you go from sad to happy in a stroke. G to Em is the reverse, confident, going to reflective.

Now enter the modes of each scale. Each scale can start on any position, the I, the II, the III. Each one creates a certain feeling, usually through association with a certain musical genre.

Ionian, starting on the first note (C of the C scale) is proud, confident, certain.
Dorian, starting on the D of the C scale, is rock, think 50s, think rock and roll, Surfin with the Alien by Satriani is all Dorian in the key of G.
Phrygian, starting with the E in the C scale, is mysterious, haunting, think Spanish music.

and so on, you can Wikipedia the rest.

So the idea is to sketch out a musical journey for your listener, taking them through various moods. Tension, then resolution of tension is the key. Too much resolution, neat Ionian patterns, are boring, they lack conflict. Conflict is the basis of good story telling. Your songs need to tell a melodic story.

Then there is rhythm.

On the beat, confident, strident, strong
Ahead of the beat, funky, dance-able, exciting
Behind the beat, reggae and dubstep, makes the person "wait" a bit for each beat, when the beat comes, its so satisfying.

There is so much more to say, but you see where I am going. The basic law of Jazz for example, is that notes should be 50 per cent predictable and 50 per cent unpredictable. That is good jazz. You hear a melody, anticipate the next note half the time and are right, but half the time, the next note surprises you.

Then there are classical techniques, honed to a science. Canons and fugues, where a melody is repeated and either a copy of that or a counterpoint to that, that is a note shift with a similar phrasing, is laid down over top of that.

There are some real masters of melody in guitar. I suggest;

Jeff Beck, his Bolero is an awesome exercise in tension and resolution.
Steve Vai, his ability to weave mouth watering melody is amazing.
Eric Johnson, his ability to create a neat, 3-5 minute guitar solo which continually surprises you and makes you feel good, is unmatched.

I am sure you will find others.

Hope this helps.
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Old 08-29-2014, 08:38 PM
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Good post Mr.Webb
Quote:
There is so much more to say
It seems to me that the OP has some trouble listening 'outside' of chord tones. My take on this problem is to do repetitive scale type exercises introducing passing tones until his ear will pick it up. Jumping into complex melodies over complex chords and changes would do no good, IMO.
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Old 08-29-2014, 09:29 PM
DASmusic DASmusic is offline
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Thanks for the help everyone. I think got it now.
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Old 08-29-2014, 09:41 PM
Davis Webb Davis Webb is offline
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Listening to a lot of good melody is fun. Here are some pieces to get you inspired...







Note that for electric at least, you often set up a groove, then develop the melody from that groove.

Cheers!

Last edited by Davis Webb; 08-29-2014 at 09:47 PM.
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Old 08-29-2014, 09:50 PM
Davis Webb Davis Webb is offline
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And finally some G Dorian mode madness...

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