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  #1  
Old 04-15-2016, 02:44 PM
semolinapilcher semolinapilcher is offline
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Default Smoke and Mirrors, or is this real?

In this YouTube, it looks to me like five musicians are playing into a Shure SM57. And it comes out gloriously.

Is this the whole story? By any chance are there some microphones hanging just above the frame? Is there some sort of processing software? Or is the room somehow ideal?

Regardless, I like this recording better than the one on the album. And the video is great too: Dave tears up at 2:34, and winces at 6:22, the only half a moment when the vocals are merely great rather than unbelievably dead-on perfect.

What lessons are there to be learned here?

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Old 04-15-2016, 03:11 PM
LeightonBankes LeightonBankes is offline
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I personally strongly feel that is totally overdubbed. Every voice and instrument has "proximity effect" and you can only get that within a foot or less of a microphone
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Old 04-15-2016, 03:54 PM
Rudy4 Rudy4 is offline
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Don't be deceived by the quality of what you hear.

KEXP live room has some serious expertise, equipment, and miles and miles of live recording experience. If you look closely you'll see at least 1 additional mic on a stand in front of the upright, and what you don't see are the high dollar mics most likely just out of frame. There's a quality to the recording that suggests a good sounding live room, and they definately have that at KEXP.
The mic that's out front is most likely there to lend a bit more up-front to the vocals.
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Old 04-15-2016, 04:03 PM
jim1960 jim1960 is offline
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I'm not buying it either. The biggest clue for me is the violin. At various points the volume of the violin is either lower than the volume of the guitars or quite a bit louder than the guitars. And this is done without any of the players changing their distance to the microphone any significant amount. I know one can achieve differences in volume with instruments, but I don't see the violin player digging in nor do I see the guitar players using a lighter touch. I'd bet money the music was dubbed.
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Old 04-15-2016, 04:48 PM
Joseph Hanna Joseph Hanna is offline
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The recording is in stereo. Voices panned slightly off center. Hard to do with a mono source It does look perhaps as if it were overdubbed but it's a good overdub. It seems strange that Rawlings would do that but who knows!?


EDIT: After watching a second time I retract my statement about it being a good over dub.

Last edited by Joseph Hanna; 04-15-2016 at 11:13 PM.
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Old 04-16-2016, 07:47 AM
Rudy4 Rudy4 is offline
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Anyone who doubts the possibility that this is the real deal should watch the ENTIRE 30 minute live recording. Watch (and listen) to the patter between the first and second song.

You can skip ahead to 7:30 if you want to skip the first song. When they start
"The Last Pharoh" it's really obvious as they start playing instruments that there is no "doctoring" or overdubs done to the resulting recording, disregarding the swimming amount of reverb.

Another tip-off that they're most likely working overheads is how they arainge themselves for the video. If KEXP were going for a better overdubbed video Brittney Hass would most likely not be buried behind Gillian Welch.

Dave does a very apparent single clap at 17:40 for post video syncing of separately recorded audio.

(See Kevwind's embedded video link for the full performance a bit further down...)

Here's a link in case the embed doesn't work...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FN14W-P8Zdc

Last edited by Rudy4; 04-16-2016 at 10:12 AM.
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Old 04-16-2016, 07:52 AM
Orfeas Orfeas is offline
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No that's for the video. There are other mics and the final cut is digitally mastered.
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Old 04-16-2016, 08:52 AM
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KevWind KevWind is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudy4 View Post
Anyone who doubts the possibility that this is the real deal should watch the ENTIRE 30 minute live recording. Watch (and listen) to the patter between the first and second song.

You can skip ahead to 7:30 if you want to skip the first song. When they start
"The Last Pharoh" it's really obvious as they start playing instruments that there is no "doctoring" or overdubs done to the resulting recording, disregarding the swimming amount of reverb.

Another tip-off that they're most likely working overheads is how they arainge themselves for the video. If KEXP were going for a better overdubbed video Brittney Hass would most likely not be buried behind Gillian Welch.

Dave does a very apparent single clap at 17:40 for post video syncing of separately recorded audio.



.


I fixed the embed for ya.

I would agree there is more than the one mic involved, obviously there is one on the bass. I don't know if it has been overdubbed or not.

Personally I do not think there is really is much actual close proximity effect, I think the overall sound is predominately mid range. I do think however they have done an excellent job of separating the instruments from each other.

I wonder if perhaps the violin has a wireless pic up on it ?

Some things to note about the performance that helps this separation is the use of capos in different positions on the different guitars. Also for example on the second song both Welch's and Watson's guitars, have what looks like folded pieces of paper slotted between the sound hole and the bridge, that look to be threaded over the top of and deadening one or more treble stings .
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Last edited by KevWind; 04-16-2016 at 08:59 AM.
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Old 04-16-2016, 10:02 AM
Joseph Hanna Joseph Hanna is offline
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Also worth mentioning and adding to the confusion the video is a couple frames out of sync as well. I think it's one of those things that just is what it is
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Old 04-16-2016, 10:06 AM
Rudy4 Rudy4 is offline
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Kevwind, Thanks for the embed fix.

I agree with your evaluation of the mix. I also failed to hear any of the previously noted proximity effect on whatever they used. The only time I usually hear proximity effect is when bass gets woofy from overly-close micing, and I certainly didn't hear it in the video.

Other than drowning in reverb, I'd say anyone who objects to this as a "live mix" might be suffering from audio envy.
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Old 04-16-2016, 10:10 AM
Rudy4 Rudy4 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Hanna View Post
Also worth mentioning and adding to the confusion the video is a couple frames out of sync as well. I think it's one of those things that just is what it is
Agreed... There's several areas with rough sync. I'm willing to forgive a multitude of sins when we're given something that features such a high level of musicianship.
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Old 04-18-2016, 06:10 AM
semolinapilcher semolinapilcher is offline
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Many thanks for the replies! It's such an amazing performance.

I have thoroughly enjoyed picking it apart from all angles, and your comments have filled in some of the gaps.
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Old 04-19-2016, 01:34 PM
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Don't forget the many years they have sharing one mic on stage. Their vocal and guitar blend is a finely honed craft forged by a lot of performing. Mic the bass, throw a couple of mics out in the room, add the incredible talent, and voila, a great video.
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