Mahogany is usually dyed, right?

[Dru Edwards]

My Garrison guitar has the solid birch back/sides stained a kind of brownish color. Much better than the alternative, which is a very light color.

[merlin666]

I am wondering if Taylor stains their Koa guitars? I haven't seen one in person but in pictures they look much, much darker and redder than the typical Koa ukuleles which tend to be left in their natural state.

[Wasper]

Originally Posted by DanleyJ

To be fair, the color balance of each photo is not a true representation. The first photo is probably pretty accurate. See the base board behind the guitar is white. In the second photo, there is an overall heavy yellow tint to the entire photo. Notice the wall and baseboards behind the guitar. Also most of what you see is a room reflection in the back of the guitar obscurring the actual wood grain of the guitar.

You do realize that I actually owned these guitars and these are not just pictures copied off the internet?

The first picture was taken in a totally different room with off-white walls and red oak flooring and the second picture was taken in a room with yellow walls and laminate honey oak floors. The second picture you can see the white cable under the off-white baseboard heater and you can see the white in the guitar purfling. Yes the balance was slightly off due to a old camera, but I can assure you that the difference in stain/dye on those two guitars were as pictured and it represents the two guitars accuratly.

[TBman]

Larrivee OM-05 Spruce over mahogany.

[DanleyJ]

Originally Posted by Wasper

You do realize that I actually owned these guitars and these are not just pictures copied off the internet?

The first picture was taken in a totally different room with off-white walls and red oak flooring and the second picture was taken in a room with yellow walls and laminate honey oak floors. The second picture you can see the white cable under the off-white baseboard heater and you can see the white in the guitar purfling. Yes the balance was slightly off due to a old camera, but I can assure you that the difference in stain/dye on those two guitars were as pictured and it represents the two guitars accuratly.

Wasper, please don't take offense at my comments. I wasn't trying to be critical of you photography skills. But if something is photographed in a white room and then also in a yellow room, that object will pick up the cast of that room it was photographed in. I just wanted to point out that the second picture had a noticeable yellow cast overall. You can still take that into consideration and see that the two guitars have a different coloration to them. But like I said before, the stain or dye used will differ with the batch that is used at the time and so there will always be different shades of color when stain or dye is applied. Each cut of wood will absorb it differently with differnt results.

[downtime]

The Mahogany on my Gibson WM-45 is either natural or very lightly stained

[/URL]


[/URL]



For comparison, the WM-45 is in the middle with the darker mahogany on my Martin 000-18GE on the left. I like both

[/URL]

[pickitluther]

Some woods look better with a dye / stain. In my opinion mahogany is one of those woods !

[AHill]

There are several pics in this thread of unstained or undyed mahogany. However, note that when a clear finish (whether it be nitro or poly) is applied, it will darken the wood somewhat. A dye can be mixed with alcohol or water and applied to the wood before finishing, or it can be mixed with the finish and applied. In the furniture world, it is very common to have finishers apply dye to the wood to match colors, since their lumber stock doesn't always match. Natural, unfinished mahogany also has a lot of pores. The finishing process includes steps to fill those pores, either by wet sanding or by using a pore filler.

[Tico]

Originally Posted by RP

I would have said that the two are synonymous, but after doing a little digging http://www.woodworkweb.com/woodwork-...ning-wood.html learned that the two are very different. According to the above article, stain is oil-based and primarily lies on top of the wood with little penetration into the wood while dye is water-based and sinks into the wood and doesn't mask the grain. Thanks for the question - I learned something....

I often read about toner on Martin soundboards.

Is toner the same process/material as dye or stain?
Or toner a third thing?

[HotRodx14]

Here are a couple electrics I built using Honduran mahogany backs. They were not dyed, stained, or grain filled, and were coated with Tru-Oil which gave them slightly more of a golden hue. They were beautiful.

A stained wood can look really good too though, and also can help make a pretty boring piece of wood look a little better. Or in the case of Taylors new 600 series, it can give maple guitars a whole new look (not better, but different).

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by DanleyJ

Wasper, please don't take offense at my comments. I wasn't trying to be critical of you photography skills. But if something is photographed in a white room and then also in a yellow room, that object will pick up the cast of that room it was photographed in. I just wanted to point out that the second picture had a noticeable yellow cast overall. You can still take that into consideration and see that the two guitars have a different coloration to them. But like I said before, the stain or dye used will differ with the batch that is used at the time and so there will always be different shades of color when stain or dye is applied. Each cut of wood will absorb it differently with differnt results.

Ambient light will also cast. Photographs taken in incandescent light will show an orange cast without compensating filtration; in flourescent light it will be bluish. Same with morning versus afternoon daylight, but in reverse to the above. At least that's what I learned through my 35mm photography.

[Rodger Knox]

Originally Posted by AHill

There are several pics in this thread of unstained or undyed mahogany. However, note that when a clear finish (whether it be nitro or poly) is applied, it will darken the wood somewhat. A dye can be mixed with alcohol or water and applied to the wood before finishing, or it can be mixed with the finish and applied. In the furniture world, it is very common to have finishers apply dye to the wood to match colors, since their lumber stock doesn't always match. Natural, unfinished mahogany also has a lot of pores. The finishing process includes steps to fill those pores, either by wet sanding or by using a pore filler.

I don't remember which is which, but the difference is that one is a solution where the color is actually dissolved in the solvent, and the other is a suspension. With the suspension, the pigment lays on top after the solvent evaporates.

It's also much more common to put any color in the first few coats of finish, not too many builders put any color directly on the wood. From the posts in this thread, it seems most of the posters assume the color always goes directly on the wood.

[GuitarDogs62]

Isn't this thread more about personal preference in a guitars color? To me I love Mahogany color guitars like the Martin D-15M or my DRS1. Once you get past the tone wood and sound that you prefer the rest is just about the color. Honestly I have learned that if the guitar sounds great, the color does not matter unless it was really ugly (Only seen on or two in my time). It has taken me awhile to live by this and don't care if the color of the guitar is burst, Mahogany, natural, Maple or two tones like a D-18. It's the sound and ease of playing any more that really grabs my attention.

[lodi_55]

You mean my Carmel OM doesn't naturally look like this?

[Wade Hampton]

First, T for Texas wrote:

Originally Posted by T Texas

Interesting....so are our mahogany guitars stained or dyed?

Mostly stained.

Then Nctom replied:

Originally Posted by Nctom

I think Gibson always stained rather than dyed their mahogany. I'm not sure why, but the practice dates from early I their history and most other makers just followed their practice.

I have a J-35 and find the natural color refreshing. My mahogany Larrivees are also undyed/stained and look more "natural".

I like the look of the J-35, as well. And, as you pointed out, Larrivée doesn't stain its mahogany guitars, leaving them in their natural color.

Then Mick the goat guy wrote:

Originally Posted by Mick's Goat Whiskey Picks

Well whadda ya know. I learned something today. I always thought that mahogany was a naturally dark wood. But because that's how I've always seen it, that's the way I prefer it. Keep on staining and dying.

Mick, just a quick peek through the soundhole of most acoustic guitars will give you a better idea of what natural mahogany looks like: the neck block, tail block and kerfed linings are all usually made of mahogany, but left completely natural, with no dye, stain, varnish or lacquer on them.

˙˙˙

In the bottom photo, the neck block and kerfed linings are mahogany, while the braces are made of spruce.

GuitarDogs wrote:

Originally Posted by GuitarDogs62

Isn't this thread more about personal preference in a guitars color? To me I love Mahogany color guitars like the Martin D-15M or my DRS1. Once you get past the tone wood and sound that you prefer the rest is just about the color. Honestly I have learned that if the guitar sounds great, the color does not matter unless it was really ugly (Only seen on or two in my time). It has taken me awhile to live by this and don't care if the color of the guitar is burst, Mahogany, natural, Maple or two tones like a D-18. It's the sound and ease of playing any more that really grabs my attention.

That's precisely my attitude, as well. I own two guitar family instruments in natural, unstained mahogany - a Tacoma Papoose and a Tacoma DM-9 - and one with stained mahogany - my Martin D-18. I like 'em all.


Wade Hampton Miller