Amp too loud for bedroom / not loud enough for gigs

[roylor4]

Originally Posted by FrankHudson

I'm not Steve, but from my memory the SuperChamp XD doesn't use the pre-amp type tube in it as a preamp. I could be wrong....

I was referring to his Blues Jr., the other amp mentioned in the OP.

Dakedi - Gotcha.

Kevwind - I agree w/Dakedi about tube amps and the way volume affects their tone. Many sound okay at low volumes but you don't get the full "blossom" of sound from a tube amp until it's pushed a bit. They envelope you with sound, unlike a modeling amp (& other ss amps) , which to my ears seems to push out from the amp in a more linear way.

As a bluesharp player for many years I have a love affair with tube amps. Though many amps come close to sounding "tubey", nothing sounds like a a tube amp pushed to 12.

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by roylor4

Steve, wouldn't just swapping out the 12ax7's for lower gain pre-amp tubes increase the usable headroom? Wouldn't a set of 5751's or 12AU7's provide the needed dial back in gain and still keep the Jr. at a giggable volume?

I did in fact put that option on the table - see my Post#10 above...

[janmulder]

Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa

I did in fact put that option on the table - see my Post#10 above...

I was going to make a tube amp from Amp-maker especially for tube experiments but he didn't have the ones i wanted in stock so I went out and bought an Orange Dark Terror head ... which is fairly simple and has a good array of tubes including a tube driven effects loop.

With my strat and tele it sounds very nice and bluesy even with gain at 11 o'clock ... just the edge of breakup. I will be trying out some 12ay7s in V1 and V2 and maybe a 5751 in The PI. What I like about this amp is that it is über sensitive to volume and tone adjustments on the guitar ... almost every position of volume or tone knob gives a different sound.

[Steve DeRosa]

You might find this of interest:

http://www.thetubestore.com/Shop-by-...remium-Package

Be advised that the 5751 has a slightly higher gain factor than the 12AT7 - I'd check with the manufacturer before using it in the PI/driver stage, just to be on the safe side...

I'd also suggest a pair of these for your power tubes - thetubestore.com recommends them for the Tiny Terror, and I'm running them in both my Bugera V22 and V5 with excellent results:

http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/EL...9-Premium-EL84

FYI these are pre-Glasnost Soviet mil-spec tubes, the Russian equivalent of the JAN stuff hard-core Fender guys pay small fortunes to install in their blonde/blackface amps; if you like to drive your power tubes hard these are the way to go, and if you're more modest in your demands you probably won't need to change them for a decade or more...

[Scotso]

I am with Womack. Taming a tube amp's power tube distortion at low levels is always a bit of a compromise. You may like those compromises but a compromise none the less. I have not tried a single attentuator, power soak etc that does not affect tone. Whether you can live with it is up to you. Some of the new modelers like the Katana are pretty good at low volumes and create a brown sound at a price unmatched just a few years ago. High end modelers like the Kemper and Fractal produce great sounds as well but come at a price.

Rather than spending money rolling tubes, trying different speakers blah blah, I think a decent low priced modeler + a decent gigging amp is a better solution. That is unless you decide to go full modeler and get one amp for all. And this rec is coming from someone who has owned many different tube amps. Until just a few yrs ago the idea of a modeler gave me a sick feeling.

[roylor4]

Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa

I did in fact put that option on the table - see my Post#10 above...

Sorry, missed it. Harp guys been swapping preamp tubes since the dark ages. Harp players love low wattage amps 'cause they can be pushed to the max. Usually w/stock tubes (although mine have NOS RCA in 'em).

[janmulder]

Originally Posted by Scotso

I am with Womack. Taming a tube amp's power tube distortion at low levels is always a bit of a compromise. You may like those compromises but a compromise none the less. I have not tried a single attentuator, power soak etc that does not affect tone. Whether you can live with it is up to you. Some of the new modelers like the Katana are pretty good at low volumes and create a brown sound at a price unmatched just a few years ago. High end modelers like the Kemper and Fractal produce great sounds as well but come at a price.

Rather than spending money rolling tubes, trying different speakers blah blah, I think a decent low priced modeler + a decent gigging amp is a better solution. That is unless you decide to go full modeler and get one amp for all. And this rec is coming from someone who has owned many different tube amps. Until just a few yrs ago the idea of a modeler gave me a sick feeling.

I think it really just depends on what you are looking for. Some folks love to tweak ... try different tubes, different speakers, pickups and ofcourse PEDALS

It's not just about the sound. It's about the experience ... not saying the experience is better with tube amps ... but it IS different. And if this experience is what rings your bell then there is really no tearing you away from it.

I liken it to the modern vs vintage car experience argument. Sure, modern cars are more reliable, faster, safer, quieter and don't smell as much ... but ... I love driving around in old vintage cars ... with all the noise, smell, vibrations, blah ... it is a totally different experience from driving a modern car. Again, not better ... just different.

[Neon Soul]

My solution for this is to pick the smallest amp that still gives you the headroom you need for gigs, whether that's the Champ, Princeton, or Deluxe Reverb etc...

My choice is the Deluxe Reverb.

Then, for home playing and smaller gigs, get a attenuator.

I have a Dr Z Brakelite in my Deluxe Reverb at the moment.

Does is sound indistinguishable, just quieter? No. There is that certain sound of the speaker and air moving that you just can't recreate at lower volumes.

Does it sound good enough? Absolutely. And, as an added bonus, you can keep the amp at that edge of breakup sound, so your pedals will hit the front end the same way.

I also use a plexi amp shield from Clearsonic when I gig, so the audience doesn't get directly blasted by the beam of high frequency from the speaker, and I can turn the amp up a tad more to compensate.

[Scotso]

Originally Posted by Dakedi

I think it really just depends on what you are looking for. Some folks love to tweak ... try different tubes, different speakers, pickups and ofcourse PEDALS

It's not just about the sound. It's about the experience ... not saying the experience is better with tube amps ... but it IS different. And if this experience is what rings your bell then there is really no tearing you away from it.

I liken it to the modern vs vintage car experience argument. Sure, modern cars are more reliable, faster, safer, quieter and don't smell as much ... but ... I love driving around in old vintage cars ... with all the noise, smell, vibrations, blah ... it is a totally different experience from driving a modern car. Again, not better ... just different.

I get what you are saying. Unfortunately he does not have an amp that works for his purposes either way according to what he is saying. All the tube rolling or speaker swapping is gonna make one problem potentially better but not solve the other. If you are looking for a price effective solution Neon Soul's is pretty good. The other is to look for an amp with a master volume and a volume knob like a Fender Supersonic so that you can crank the amp's volume knob for power tube distortion and then tame that volume with the master. It is a bit of a compromise but a decent one.

[aknow]

Originally Posted by Dakedi

I'm done with digital modelling for now ... unless it's something like a Kemper.

It's not only about the sound. I think you can get pretty good sounds out of modelling these days and in a production you wouldn't notice any difference. However, I think it's more that a valve amp feels different to play ... especially at gig volumes. The cheaper ones have concentrated on getting the sound right and I think it's only the more expensive ones like Kemper that also attempt to address the feeling of playing a valve amp.

But, at the end of the day, it's all a matter of preference ... and dare I say, a little pinch of valve or analog 'snobbery' as well ... certainly in my case. There might even be a dose of placebo effect in there ... but I don't care

I feel the same way. Modeler's have really improved, for performance I use a B/F 1964 fender deluxe reverb, or a Carr Skylark. But at 1/8 the price, for practice and experimentation, modeler's are pretty amazing, esp. the katana.

[bogiflip]

15 watt tube is much to loud for my appartment. I play 15 watt Vox AC15 in our rehearsel room, and it can be crazy loud.
At home i play a Yamaha THR10 and think this is a perferct home amp. It even looks good and makes the girl happy ;-)