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  #16  
Old 05-09-2012, 09:56 PM
bananas bananas is offline
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Originally Posted by steveyam View Post
You know, it's more of a myth than a hard fact that they are "so desirable". Why do I say that? Well, I'm always scanning the internet and indeed buying red label (and other) early Yamahas, and you know what? you can buy them at relativley cheap prices; I just bought an FG512-12 in excellent condition for £94, and I also bought an FG-360 for £155. The FG-360 is a veritable cannon of a guitar and is essentially the same guitar as the sought after 300, but without the fancy scratchplate and the adjustable bridge.

Yes, there are quite a few afficianados and 'appreciators' of the early FGs, but in general they do not command a high price when you consider what you are getting for your money. What I'm saying is, they are a bargain! But anway, I'm clearly not trying to hide the fact how good/good value they are, and so long as people continue to (generally) ignore that, and allow them to be sold for low prices, I'm happy to buy them!

Incidentally, the 140 is a great bargain. Most people refer to (and seek) the 180 as being the D-18 clone, but the 140 is also, and it too is a cannon. You can buy them from £120 to £250.

Also note, the red label does not always mean 'made in Japan'. The Japanese ones actually say 'Nippon Gakki'. I'm not qualified to comment on whether the Thai red label guitars compare favourably with the Japanese ones, having not owned one. I'm certainly not 'pre-prejudiced' against them if one came my way.

Some info:

Look at page 3 of this brochure, there's a Yamaha acoustic guitar timeline:

http://www.giles.com/yamaha1/pdf/bro...rs/AG_sogo.pdf

If you then want to know more about a specific model from that brochure, take the model number and insert it here (no gap between letters and numbers):

http://www.yamaha.com/apps/guitararc...hive2.asp?t=ac
Are those links working for anybody else? They don`t for me.
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  #17  
Old 05-10-2012, 01:52 AM
steveyam steveyam is offline
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Originally Posted by bananas View Post
Are those links working for anybody else? They don`t for me.
ok, here's the latest address for the second one:

http://www.yamaha.com/apps/guitararc...hive2.asp?t=ac

Re the first one, I wouldn't have a clue what they've done with it, sorry, but here is a copy of the relevant page:
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  #18  
Old 05-10-2012, 02:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Kitchen Guitars View Post
A brand new FG730s or the L6 will knock many of them out of contending. Just because of 40 years of neck movement, body shifts......
I am not knocking a great FG180, or a great FG300.
IF I got to look at it before shipping charges and it checks out I do have a love for the oldies. I just bought too many Yamaha's off Stevie Wonder on eBay and soured. Locally, more than 9 out of 10 have no saddle left and a canoe for a neck.
With you. Supports my own experience locally as well.
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  #19  
Old 05-10-2012, 04:37 AM
steveyam steveyam is offline
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[QUOTE=Fret Buzz;3035615]
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With you. Supports my own experience locally as well.
I hear what you say, but you just have to look for the good ones, ask lost of searching questions, ask for photos. If they wont oblige or it doesn't quite stack up, dont buy. Simple as that. All mine are beauties. The only one I had to do much work on was the 140 that had a high action. But contrary to the neck reset fascination/phobia on AGF, I just took the saddle and bridge down (you can easily lose around 4mm), fitted a bridge doctor (that as a byproduct actually improved the tone even more!) and its perfectly fine. No need for neck resets most of the time.
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  #20  
Old 05-10-2012, 06:28 AM
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Kitchen Guitars Kitchen Guitars is offline
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When the bridge needs shaved its too close to dead for me.
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  #21  
Old 05-10-2012, 06:32 AM
Bobele Bobele is offline
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He's right about that. In Tokyo - locally- there are a whole bunch of newer and some older FGs - in all price ranges from FG150ish up to 2000 - the latter would set you back half a car. But for the 180s- i've seen many refinished ones, probably done when the bridge was shaven off as well. So action/neck is often taken care of already - unless you buy unseen online - then its a different story...

Simon
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  #22  
Old 05-10-2012, 07:12 AM
deadllama deadllama is offline
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There are a lot of these things for sale where the bridge has already been shaved. Are those worth buying? When the bridge and saddle are maxed out, how much longer is it going to be before the neck angle gets bad enough that a neck reset is the only option?

Sorry for the endless stream of questions. I've just always wanted one of these things and now that I'm serious about buying one it looks like they've all got no saddle left. Is it too late to find a reasonably-priced good one? Should I have been born about 20 years earlier?
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  #23  
Old 05-10-2012, 07:38 AM
kjcole kjcole is offline
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I've got a '74 Nippon Gakki FG-360, had it since new. Saddle is as low as it will go. Strings just aren't driving the top like they used too, with resulting changes in amplitude, and tonal balance. I'm resetting the neck this summer, come h*ll or high water. It's too nice of a guitar not to try.
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  #24  
Old 05-10-2012, 05:58 PM
dmun1 dmun1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjcole View Post
I've got a '74 Nippon Gakki FG-360, had it since new. Saddle is as low as it will go. Strings just aren't driving the top like they used too, with resulting changes in amplitude, and tonal balance. I'm resetting the neck this summer, come h*ll or high water. It's too nice of a guitar not to try.
I vaguely remember something about some old Japanese guitars that have the neck glued on with an epoxy glue, making a neck reset almost impossible - or at least a lot more work. Wasn't Yammies, was it?
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  #25  
Old 05-10-2012, 07:28 PM
bananas bananas is offline
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Theres a lot written about old Japanese guitars on the web but very little, if any, comes from the people who built them.
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  #26  
Old 05-10-2012, 08:09 PM
GHS GHS is offline
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I have three old Yamahas. An Fg-180 and FG-230 twelve string. They were good in their day but are wall art now, bad necks but no splits cracks or lifting bridges, really well built and sounded awsome. They were the answer to guys like me who couldnt afford the guilds my friends were playing. I also have anLL5-12 stringe built in 1985 with solid sitka spruce top, solid African mahogany (sapale) back and lam mahogany sides. It doesnt have much saddle left but when you get those twelve strings humming it really does sound great. Hope its got a few more years left, I keep it tuned down to D.
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  #27  
Old 05-11-2012, 12:16 AM
steveyam steveyam is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjcole View Post
I've got a '74 Nippon Gakki FG-360, had it since new. Saddle is as low as it will go. Strings just aren't driving the top like they used too, with resulting changes in amplitude, and tonal balance. I'm resetting the neck this summer, come h*ll or high water. It's too nice of a guitar not to try.
If you lower a saddle, particularly if it's done a fair amount, you have to re-cut the string slots to re-instate the string break angle. From your description, it seems that has not been done?
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McIlroy AJ50
Yamaha CPX-1200
Yamaha CPX-700/12
Yamaha LS16
Yamaha FG-300
Yamaha FG-580
Vox V2000-DR

+ electric guitars..
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  #28  
Old 05-11-2012, 12:34 AM
steveyam steveyam is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deadllama View Post
There are a lot of these things for sale where the bridge has already been shaved. Are those worth buying? When the bridge and saddle are maxed out, how much longer is it going to be before the neck angle gets bad enough that a neck reset is the only option?

Sorry for the endless stream of questions. I've just always wanted one of these things and now that I'm serious about buying one it looks like they've all got no saddle left. Is it too late to find a reasonably-priced good one? Should I have been born about 20 years earlier?
I'm an experienced tech (40 years) and if I'd experienced any problems after shaving a bridge I would have quietly let such guitars 'go'. In truth I have experienced no problems; if anything the decreased mass results in a better bass response. Like a lot of these so called 'issues', frankly they seem to be more of a problem in people's heads, not the guitar. really. Only on one of the FG guitars in the list below have I had to shave the bridge. Because, as I said, look out for the minters, they're there aplenty. Let me say it clearly, cos I don't think I'm getting through; YOU CAN BUY RED LABEL YAMAHAS FOR A REASONABLE PRICE THAT DO NOT HAVE ANY PROBLEMS.
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McIlroy AJ50
Yamaha CPX-1200
Yamaha CPX-700/12
Yamaha LS16
Yamaha FG-300
Yamaha FG-580
Vox V2000-DR

+ electric guitars..
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  #29  
Old 05-11-2012, 02:06 AM
stardot stardot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deadllama View Post
There are a lot of these things for sale where the bridge has already been shaved. Are those worth buying? When the bridge and saddle are maxed out, how much longer is it going to be before the neck angle gets bad enough that a neck reset is the only option?

Sorry for the endless stream of questions. I've just always wanted one of these things and now that I'm serious about buying one it looks like they've all got no saddle left. Is it too late to find a reasonably-priced good one? Should I have been born about 20 years earlier?
If I had the space, I'd grab up a lot of those "bad neck yammies" for future fun projects. Some of my favorite guitars were good for firewood only when I started on them, and now they make jaws drop from the sound and playing action. Does it make sense to do a 300+ neck reset on a 40 yr old guitar worth 300? Not from any business sense, but if I do it myself, for myself, sure it does. There's a lot of things more fun than money in the bank.

As Steveyam has said here, most of the time a thoughtful set of steps can repair action issues short of a neck reset.
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  #30  
Old 05-11-2012, 07:10 AM
deadllama deadllama is offline
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The very earliest FG-180s had tan labels and "Reinforced Neck" truss rod covers, didn't they? And then the labels were red with the "Yamaha" covers, and then they switched back to tan?
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