How much difference does the guitar make?

[printer2]

I had three Peavy Raptors at the same time (got them cheap) and they all sounded the same.

[Bob Womack]

Originally Posted by Russ C

So if distortion is basic to someone’s sound I understand there’d be much less hope of hearing an guitars’s acoustic qualities from their amp.

Light amplifier distortion is basic to several of my sounds and I can still hear the difference. In fact, try out the food groups.

All different.

Bob

[Guitarplayer_PR]

Originally Posted by Gordon Currie

Well, close the thread. The authority has spoken.

Well, it should've been closed well before me. Acoustic qualities of an electric guitar? That doesn't any sense, since an electric guitar does need amplification. The amp material, the speaker, the electronics, etc., totally overshadow all, and electric guitars don't have any kind of "acoustic" use.

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by Guitarplayer_PR

...Acoustic qualities of an electric guitar? That doesn't make any sense, since an electric guitar does need amplification. The amp material, the speaker, the electronics, etc., totally overshadow all, and electric guitars don't have any kind of "acoustic" use.

Depends what your operative definitions are:

• The term "electric guitar" covers a lot of ground, both practically and historically - everything from the circa-1935 "Charlie Christian" ES-150 to the laminated postwar jazzboxes (ES-175, Epiphone Zephyr, Guild X-150, et al.) to the classic solids of the '50s/60s (LP, SG, Tele, Strat, et al.) to thinlines (Gibson Byrdland/ES-350T, '60s Gretsch Chet Atkins models, Epiphone Casino/Sorrento, Harmony H77/78, etc.) to the hair-band metal planks of the '80s to hybrids like the Taylor T5 - each with its own distinctive amplified tonal qualities;
• The fact that most electric guitars need amplification to be heard in a large setting is undeniable (the postwar 17" ES-150 and its Epiphone Zephyr competitor had acoustic tone/volume that rivaled their all-acoustic/all-carved L-7 and Triumph counterparts - many savvy club players used them as true dual-purpose instruments), as is the fact that they indeed have acoustic properties in the Websterian sense of the term - not always to one's particular taste, but acoustic properties nevertheless;
• As to whether or not solidbodles have (low-volume) acoustic properties, a couple former pro-level jamming buds (one who belonged to a multiple Grammy-winning CCM group, the other having toured with a major 1960's American R&R HOF act with record sales well into the high eight-figure range) commented on the unplugged sweetness and resonance of my Gibson LP Studio goldtop/P-90, a no-frills entry-level solidbody - and other than the late jazz lgend Jack Wilkins (my teacher when I was a kid) these guys knew more about tone (and how to get it) than just about anybody else I've worked with in the last 60+ years, which leads me to:
• Speaking as a summa cum loudly graduate of the Hard Knocks Experiential-Learning School of Electric Guitar Tone (Class of 1966), something I learned early on is that your entire signal chain should operate as one seamless, complementary unit - if any single element "overshadows" the others you're doing it wrong, and the best way to go about rectifying the situation is by turning down the volume and isolating the offending factor;
• Can't speak for anyone else, but I could tell you exactly which of my similarly-equipped/constructed guitars I'm listening to in a blind test, played clean through the same amp at moderate volume: each of my Gretsch hollowbodies has a distinctive tone, the aforementioned P-90 LP sounds nothing like my Godin 5th Avenue (which also sounds very different from my Carlo Robelli ES-5 triple P-90 jazzbox or my similarly lightly-constructed '64 Gretsch Double Annie), my Fender/Squier Strat doesn't sound like my wife's 3-PU Yamaha Pacifica or my own Yamaha SSC-500 - you get the idea...

I've heard an anecdotal story about a certain legendary rocker who insisted on a single brand of battery in his stompboxes, as he could hear the difference immediately; while I can't lay claim to that kind of aural acuity (I can tell the difference between different brands of identical-nomenclature tubes, and in which position, in my own amps, but that's about as far as it goes) there are definite differences that each of us here uses to construct his/her own signature electric tone, occurring at different points in the signal chain including the construction of the guitar[s] in use. Whether or not you can hear them in your style[s] pf music, with your equipment, is OK - we all have different sonic focal points an preferences - but to imply that those of us who can hear genuine differences are somewhat lacking in knowledge/ability/perception is painting with a far-too-broad and pejorative brush...

Let the games begin...

[imwjl]

Originally Posted by Guitarplayer_PR

Well, it should've been closed well before me. Acoustic qualities of an electric guitar? That doesn't any sense, since an electric guitar does need amplification. The amp material, the speaker, the electronics, etc., totally overshadow all, and electric guitars don't have any kind of "acoustic" use.

There may well be some exceptions. An ES-175 is plywood. Some ES-335 have some tone and volume unplugged. The Collings SoCo 16s are rather crazy with how loud and toneful (a word?) they are. The latter can sound like the best 335s, but also their own nice tone with clean tone and a blackface amp.

I have tried to not overthink this stuff after my fun experiment swapping the pickups and trying the 3rd party pickups in those 3 Telecasters, and my long stretch of GAS-free.

Scale length is a matter too. My inner nerd had to try my son's Jaguar and Jazzmaster both unplugged and with same string set.

Does it spark joy is most important here.

[abn556]

Originally Posted by printer2

I had three Peavy Raptors at the same time (got them cheap) and they all sounded the same.

So let me see if I’ve got this right from reading the nonsense on this thread. All acoustics are different and even D-18s that came off the line one after another sound different from one another, yet all electrics sound the same. This is utter BS.

[printer2]

Originally Posted by abn556

So let me see if I’ve got this right from reading the nonsense on this thread. All acoustics are different and even D-18s that came off the line one after another sound different from one another, yet all electrics sound the same. This is utter BS.

Which part?

[FrankHudson]

OK, I decided to test this theory that electric guitar pickups pick up nothing but the sound of the strings. I grabbed a pack of strings and hooked up a pickup to an amp. I had a hard time getting any sound out of this. I even took the strings out of the package, still not much sound. OK, last test, I took one of the strings out, grabbed it two clenched fists to stretch it over the pickup and used a extended finger from one fist to pluck it. Some sound -- but it still didn't sound like a Telecaster.



Yes, electric guitars have things that change the sound the strings make.

Now, it's entirely possible to overestimate the impact of those things. The electric guitar is a system, lots of parts, many of which can make changes to how it sounds: Musical choices, the player, pick or not, string type, scale length, pickup type and location, guitar hardware, guitar electronics, the wooden parts, effects, amp, speaker, and so on.

Because of this it's possible to get way too concerned with a part of this system as determining the sound.

[Russ C]

Originally Posted by abn556

So let me see if I’ve got this right from reading the nonsense on this thread. All acoustics are different and even D-18s that came off the line one after another sound different from one another, yet all electrics sound the same. This is utter BS.

While I totally agree with you about all guitars being different - mainly because they’re made of wood - and that affects what comes from a magnetic pickup, I think it’s fair to Printer to acknowledge that pickups can be so close to identical it doesn’t matter and a pickup is such a big part of the electric sound that 3 solid guitars could sound so close to the same a human wouldn’t pick any difference.

[redir]

Originally Posted by abn556

So let me see if I’ve got this right from reading the nonsense on this thread. All acoustics are different and even D-18s that came off the line one after another sound different from one another, yet all electrics sound the same. This is utter BS.

I build acoustic guitars though have built about a dozen electric guitars too. I have built two 'identical' acoustic guitars from wood that came from the every same boards each respectively. The acoustic guitars sound very different and anyone with ears can hear it.

Printer said he had 3 identical electric guitars and they sound the same, I don't doubt that at all because because electric guitars do not depend on acoustic properties, building construction and so on. I bet if he put those Raptor pickups in another guitar he would perhaps hear a difference but in identical solid body electric guitars probably not.

[YamahaGuy]

I have a Sitka/flamed maple Yamaha CPX900 with the 4 transducer ART pickups in it. I also have an LLX6A with Engelmann/laminate rosewood with the identical pickups and preamp. The guitars sound vastly different plugged in.

My Taylor 110e/214ce/324ce all sound vastly different plugged in and they all have ES2.

I'd say "significant" difference.

Oops. Didn't realize this was the "Electric guitars" area.

[Russ C]

Originally Posted by YamahaGuy

I have a Sitka/flamed maple Yamaha CPX900 with the 4 transducer ART pickups in it. I also have an LLX6A with Engelmann/laminate rosewood with the identical pickups and preamp. The guitars sound vastly different plugged in.

My Taylor 110e/214ce/324ce all sound vastly different plugged in and they all have ES2.

I'd say "significant" difference.

Oops. Didn't realize this was the "Electric guitars" area.

That’s ok. Your comment is relevant. It goes indirectly toward an opinion on electrics too because they are acoustic - just a lot less so.

[67goat]

When talking about electric guitars, besides saying same pickups, a few other things needs to be established.

1) Is one guitar a hollow body while the other is a solid body? Because the ability for the top to vibrate changes the spacing and dynamics of the pickup/string distance.

2) Is the pickup spacing in relation to the bridge the same? Pickup placement has a large impact on tone. The standard placement for an SG and an LP is different between the two guitars. So one would expect slightly different tones even if you swapped out the same exact set of pickups.

3) Do they have the same scale length? If not, then the two guitars will sound different.

4) Are the minute details the same? For example, is the pickup height exactly the same?

5) How close are the pickup sets in tone? Unless you are swapping one set of pickups between the two guitars, there will generally be enough of a difference between two sets of pickups (even though they are the same model of pickups) that you will probably be able to hear if you are specifically listening for differences.

Setup, scale, pickup spacing, and pickup height will all alter the tone. As long as those are the same, I don't notice any difference in tone when swapping pickups among the same guitar.

However, there is a different feel and response to those different guitars and they make me play differently, which might affect might tone when I am playing.

Some of the best amplified guitars I have ever played sounded like garbage unplugged. And some of the ones that sounded best acoustically sounded pretty garbage plugged in. The guitar itself may affect sustain, but the pickups are just measuring metal through a magnetic field (unless they are really microphonic).

[printer2]

Originally Posted by 67goat

When talking about electric guitars, besides saying same pickups, a few other things needs to be established.

1) Is one guitar a hollow body while the other is a solid body? Because the ability for the top to vibrate changes the spacing and dynamics of the pickup/string distance.

2) Is the pickup spacing in relation to the bridge the same? Pickup placement has a large impact on tone. The standard placement for an SG and an LP is different between the two guitars. So one would expect slightly different tones even if you swapped out the same exact set of pickups.

3) Do they have the same scale length? If not, then the two guitars will sound different.

4) Are the minute details the same? For example, is the pickup height exactly the same?

5) How close are the pickup sets in tone? Unless you are swapping one set of pickups between the two guitars, there will generally be enough of a difference between two sets of pickups (even though they are the same model of pickups) that you will probably be able to hear if you are specifically listening for differences.

Setup, scale, pickup spacing, and pickup height will all alter the tone. As long as those are the same, I don't notice any difference in tone when swapping pickups among the same guitar.

However, there is a different feel and response to those different guitars and they make me play differently, which might affect might tone when I am playing.

Some of the best amplified guitars I have ever played sounded like garbage unplugged. And some of the ones that sounded best acoustically sounded pretty garbage plugged in. The guitar itself may affect sustain, but the pickups are just measuring metal through a magnetic field (unless they are really microphonic).

Mostly how I see it. One thing that can alter the resonance of the pickup is the pot value. Pots can vary up to 20% in resistance and this effects the height of the peak.

[rokdog49]

After following this thread for a bit I feel compelled to declare the absolute truth about this subject.


Nahhhhhh!