Looking for a nice set of Brazilian Kingwood

[Steve Kinnaird]

RCTonewoods has a few sets right now.
Partly quartered, partly slabbed. Trees are indeed small, but if you can tolerate that, a couple of their sets are large enough for a dread.

http://rctonewoods.com/RCT_Store/kin...1-p-11355.html

Steve

[magirus]

If a back is made from 4 or 5 pieces of wood do the extra joints (over a 2 piece) make the back weaker and therefore in need of some strengthening of the joints, or require any difference in bracing?

[N K Forster]

Originally Posted by magirus

If a back is made from 4 or 5 pieces of wood do the extra joints (over a 2 piece) make the back weaker and therefore in need of some strengthening of the joints, or require any difference in bracing?

The joints are reinforced, just like the centre strip of a 2 piece. Weaker? That depends on your ability to make straight joints. My feeling is a well made 4 piece quarter sawn back would be less liable to split than a 2 piece slab sawn back.

This is a 6 piece back:




Beyond Indian, which is as stable a rosewood you'll ever find, many rosewoods have a strong desire to misbehave. No matter how old they are. So my preference is for straight grained quarter sawn wood rather than slab sawn. Even if that means multiple pieces. Quarter sawn is more stable. The slab sawn is often very beautiful, but as well all know, beauty and instability can be related!

There are times when I will use slabbed wood, but the circumstances are quite specific. My default would be to go for quarter sawn if available. When working with the rosewoods like Brazilian, I've actually sacrificed slabbed sections and made 4-5 piece backs from 2 piece backs in the name of stability.

4 piece:



Everyone knows (in theory) that solid slabbed wood is more likely to split than quarter sawn, but no one believes it will happen to their guitar. And when it does, they blame the maker. So my choice is stability over bling. And that is always my recommendation to clients.

Nigel
www.nkforsterguitars.com

[stringjunky]

Originally Posted by N K Forster

The joints are reinforced, just like the centre strip of a 2 piece. Weaker? That depends on your ability to make straight joints. My feeling is a well made 4 piece quarter sawn back would be less liable to split than a 2 piece slab sawn back.

This is a 6 piece back:




Beyond Indian, which is as stable a rosewood you'll ever find, many rosewoods have a strong desire to misbehave. No matter how old they are. So my preference is for straight grained quarter sawn wood rather than slab sawn. Even if that means multiple pieces. Quarter sawn is more stable. The slab sawn is often very beautiful, but as well all know, beauty and instability can be related!

There are times when I will use slabbed wood, but the circumstances are quite specific. My default would be to go for quarter sawn if available. When working with the rosewoods like Brazilian, I've actually sacrificed slabbed sections and made 4-5 piece backs from 2 piece backs in the name of stability.

4 piece:



Everyone knows (in theory) that solid slabbed wood is more likely to split than quarter sawn, but no one believes it will happen to their guitar. And when it does, they blame the maker. So my choice is stability over bling. And that is always my recommendation to clients.

Nigel
www.nkforsterguitars.com

Your multi-piece backs are very nice and convince me aesthetically that it can be done to a high standard.

[iim7V7IM7]

This is a four-piece Madagascar Rosewood back. This set was originally purchased as bass fingerboards and was resawn into back and side sets by LMI about 15-years ago. I will take a stable, quartersawn four piece back over a quartered to rift or flatsawn two-piece back any day. When done properly, no non-luthier would ever know from looking at it.

[stringjunky]

Originally Posted by iim7V7IM7

This is a four-piece Madagascar Rosewood back. This set was originally purchased as bass fingerboards and was resawn into back and side sets by LMI about 15-years ago. I will take a stable, quartersawn four piece back over a quartered to rift or flatsawn two-piece back any day. When done properly, no non-luthier would ever know from looking at it.

That's very nice. I could live with that.

[magirus]

Originally Posted by magirus

If a back is made from 4 or 5 pieces of wood do the extra joints (over a 2 piece) make the back weaker and therefore in need of some strengthening of the joints, or require any difference in bracing?

Originally Posted by N K Forster

The joints are reinforced, just like the centre strip of a 2 piece. Weaker? That depends on your ability to make straight joints. My feeling is a well made 4 piece quarter sawn back would be less liable to split than a 2 piece slab sawn back.

This is a 6 piece back:




Beyond Indian, which is as stable a rosewood you'll ever find, many rosewoods have a strong desire to misbehave. No matter how old they are. So my preference is for straight grained quarter sawn wood rather than slab sawn. Even if that means multiple pieces. Quarter sawn is more stable. The slab sawn is often very beautiful, but as well all know, beauty and instability can be related!

There are times when I will use slabbed wood, but the circumstances are quite specific. My default would be to go for quarter sawn if available. When working with the rosewoods like Brazilian, I've actually sacrificed slabbed sections and made 4-5 piece backs from 2 piece backs in the name of stability.

4 piece:



Everyone knows (in theory) that solid slabbed wood is more likely to split than quarter sawn, but no one believes it will happen to their guitar. And when it does, they blame the maker. So my choice is stability over bling. And that is always my recommendation to clients.

Nigel
www.nkforsterguitars.com

Thanks for the reply, it all makes sense!

[LouieAtienza]

Originally Posted by iim7V7IM7

This is a four-piece Madagascar Rosewood back. This set was originally purchased as bass fingerboards and was resawn into back and side sets by LMI about 15-years ago. I will take a stable, quartersawn four piece back over a quartered to rift or flatsawn two-piece back any day. When done properly, no non-luthier would ever know from looking at it.

I think you need to send that over my way so I can examine that more closely...

[LouieAtienza]

Originally Posted by magirus

If a back is made from 4 or 5 pieces of wood do the extra joints (over a 2 piece) make the back weaker and therefore in need of some strengthening of the joints, or require any difference in bracing?

The glue joint can actually be stronger than the wood itself There is a video of Romanillos discussing the merits of making tops out of multiple pieces.

Probably the most famous multiple-piece back guitars are the Martin D-35, though in that case the center piece is accentuated rather than hidden. Also they use reinforcement strips inside at each joint, but likely because they have an "inlay" strip at each joint as well.

[iim7V7IM7]

Originally Posted by LouieAtienza

I think you need to send that over my way so I can examine that more closely...

I had it with me at Woodstock Louie...sorry that I missed you....

[printer2]

I would love to have Bruce's burn pile. Fore rosettes and inlay mind you.

[alohachris]

Aloha,

I've made several four-piece backed guitars: BRW, MadRW & Macassar Ebony all in the interest of keeping every part of the guitar box made of quarter-sawn tonewoods. No problems. Most of my guitars travel from Hawaii to places that have indoor heating during the winter. So quarter-sawn is absolutely a MUST for me to keep them stable.

However, it kinda cracks me up, Steve Kinnaird, that you wrote above "if you can tolerate that," because you obviously can. Many, many threads here of your builds have featured fancy, plain-sliced backs - in the interest of using the striking, gorgeous woods our customers love, right? How do you keep those guitars stable year-round besides de-humidifying your shop in building them?

Just curious. BTW, I love your guitars & your design sense. You always achieve a very nice visual/design/rosette/inlay balance.

alohachris

[Bruce Sexauer]

A couple of years ago I made a 6 piece back BRW classical guitar. No decoration except at the center join. I have it here in my shop and it has not yet even shown finish degrade at the joins, though it probably will as my finish is thin and non-structural, and the back is quite thin.

[handers]

Regarding multipiece backs, I have heard no luthier say a properly built seam is weak. My son's Froggy K has 4-piece mad rose back that looks/sounds great.
hans

[printer2]

I have a guitar still in the works is a guitar just shy of 15" wide, 5 piece top as well as back, and each side is two pieces laminated together. So far it has seen a humidity range from 25% - 60% and no visible problems. No joining strip on the seams. I need to get around and cut a fretboard for it so I can finish it.