Trouble With Baggs Elements Through Tonedexter?

BluesKing777 · #1 03-17-2018, 09:16 PM

I have 2 guitars with Baggs Elements, Gibson J45 and Gibson Blues King L-00 and while I have had success with Fishman undersaddles and other piezos, I just can’t seem to get a nice sound with the Gibsons. They both sound great acoustically, but I can’t get them happening through Tonedexter. (Mic - Neumann KM184).

The J45 for example, I ended up turning the TD bass right off and the treble to a 1/4 turn boost. And even then, it didn’t sound ‘real’. Too boomy.

I played the J acoustically again just to make sure....fab.

Any clues?

BluesKing777.

Gordon Currie · #2 03-18-2018, 03:33 PM

My first guess is that the installation of the Element might present too much non-linearity to ToneDexter. How, I have no clue.

James May · #3 03-18-2018, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BluesKing777

I have 2 guitars with Baggs Elements, Gibson J45 and Gibson Blues King L-00 and while I have had success with Fishman undersaddles and other piezos, I just can’t seem to get a nice sound with the Gibsons. They both sound great acoustically, but I can’t get them happening through Tonedexter. (Mic - Neumann KM184).

The J45 for example, I ended up turning the TD bass right off and the treble to a 1/4 turn boost. And even then, it didn’t sound ‘real’. Too boomy.

I played the J acoustically again just to make sure....fab.

Any clues?

BluesKing777.

We have not tested the Element ourselves, but here from other users that it works fine. That is the EAS or Element Active System. The Anthem, which contains an Element, is also fine. The Anthem SL has a built in crossover and compression that can't be disabled and causes the training to be hit or miss, mostly miss.

BluesKing777 · #4 03-18-2018, 05:57 PM

Thanks Gordon and James!

I went back to square one...a few times..made more maps different mic positions etc...but still didn't like.

Then I was playing another guitar with my DiMarzio piezo contact pickup, then added my old Fishman Pro EQ direct to mixer and that is a pretty usable sound similar to the K@K type sound. So I thought to try the contact on my J45 and it is pretty nice, also through the Fishman box. Then I ran a lead from the Baggs Element to the Fishman box and first thing I did was turn the volume thumbwheel in the soundhole RIGHT down! It was then quiet a nice piezo quacker!

I intended to try it through Fishman box to Tonedexter, but I need 2 more guitar leads and I look to see a pile of cartons and guitar stuff on top off my box with spare (probably wonky) guitar leads, so I just plug straight to TD and leave the guitar volume down and ....it is a huge improvement. I can see that I need to make another wavemap with this volume setting.... coming up next....later...

BluesKing777.

James May · #5 03-18-2018, 06:24 PM

Sounds like the Element may have been getting a bit non linear or compressed at the highest volume setting. Could be. Make sure battery is healthy and also that the input gain is set correctly on Dexter.

BluesKing777 · #6 03-18-2018, 06:47 PM

I will.

I mentioned the Element here because a lot of people have them, eg. Gibson Standard series acoustics. So it is way better with minimal volume on the thumbwheel. Battery is new and I have my battery tester to check.

I can’t see the Anthem working on TD unless the mic is off fully, same with Auras. I did a test with my Fishman Rare Earth Blend (mic model) and it spun out TD a bit. Set to just the mag pickup gives some different sounds in TD, but if you use a blend of mic playing live, TD is a bit pointless.

same with the Anthem, I guess.

BluesKing777.

BluesKing777 · #7 03-19-2018, 06:13 PM

I made a short recording of where I am at - I might have taken the bottom end back too far now...

The first part is the J45 through my Neumann KM184, no reverb and eq flat.
The second part is the newest wavemap I made in Tonedexter.
The third part is with my (older model) Fishman Pro EQ with bass pulled back and mid swept - and to Tonedexter again.

https://soundcloud.com/bk7-3/j45mictd77a

BluesKing777.

BluesKing777 · #8 03-19-2018, 09:51 PM

And....

I made a wavemap with my Shure SM57 mic - I like it probably because I have used the mic for years, but it still has a bit of bass in the map....

https://soundcloud.com/bk7-3/j45mictd77b

BluesKing777.

AeroUSA · #9 03-20-2018, 11:32 AM

I tried TD with an ES2 Taylor and with the focus on 1 I also have to dial back bass and increase treble a lot. Maybe it’s because the TD adds a lot of the low frequencies that the pickup doesn’t have. I don’t need to EQ at all when using the Ultra Tonic guitar.

BluesKing777 · #10 03-20-2018, 04:38 PM

Just as a ‘double blind’, I re-cased the J45 and made a wavemap with the Shure SM57 of another guitar to check (LG3 with passive Martin Thinline undersaddle) and it came out fabulous! Ready to play, nothing else needed, no eq alts...zip. Great.

BluesKing777.

MrErikJ · #11 03-20-2018, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BluesKing777

And....

I made a wavemap with my Shure SM57 mic - I like it probably because I have used the mic for years, but it still has a bit of bass in the map....

https://soundcloud.com/bk7-3/j45mictd77b

BluesKing777.

Sounds great to me! Fantastic live sound with the added stability of a UST.

BluesKing777 · #12 03-21-2018, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrErikJ

Sounds great to me! Fantastic live sound with the added stability of a UST.

Thanks Erik!

Yes, it is a great sound but I am guessing that in a live situation, that extra boom would .....err...bloom.

I got my Cargill custom 00 back yesterday from the (very busy) luthier with a k&k mini after a sweaty wait of 3 weeks or so. My fabulous custom now has a great pickup! I like it plugged direct to my mixer but I also made a couple of wavemaps in Tonedexter and phew...lookout!

I rang the luthier back and ordered another k&k for my treasured but pickup troubled Lowden S35!

BluesKing777.