Speaker cab question:

[Robert H.]

I'm more of a Tele player, but I do sometimes play a steel string acoustic. I don't have a dedicated acoustic amp, nor do I feel I really need one. Currently I run my acoustic into a Quilter Mini Head; there's a low gain jazz setting that sounds quite good for acoustic. I'm running it into an 1X8 enclosure with a mid-range Celestion that at least has a broader frequency range than a normal electric guitar speaker, (it's 70-6000 hrz) but I'm wondering if a smaller passive PA speaker might be a better choice? This would not be used for vocals, just acoustic guitar. Any thoughts?

[GmanJeff]

The speaker you're using can reproduce the frequency range of an acoustic guitar but whether it is providing the best possible sound for your needs can only be evaluated by comparing its performance against alternatives.

Tone, efficiency, weight, power handling etc are all other variables which will play into the equation of what will best meet your needs. Just as the same 8" Celestion in an open-back cab will sound different in a closed back cab, so too will your sound be different if you compare what you're using now against a EV ZXa1 or a QSC K8. Either of those 8" powered PA speakers would allow you to dispense with the separate power amp, but will probably weigh more than the cab you're using now. Powered speakers likely will provide much greater SPL potential since most 8" unpowered speaker cabs have fairly low power handling capabilities.

[Robert H.]

Originally Posted by GmanJeff

The speaker you're using can reproduce the frequency range of an acoustic guitar but whether it is providing the best possible sound for your needs can only be evaluated by comparing its performance against alternatives.

Tone, efficiency, weight, power handling etc are all other variables which will play into the equation of what will best meet your needs. Just as the same 8" Celestion in an open-back cab will sound different in a closed back cab, so too will your sound be different if you compare what you're using now against a EV ZXa1 or a QSC K8. Either of those 8" powered PA speakers would allow you to dispense with the separate power amp, but will probably weigh more than the cab you're using now. Powered speakers likely will provide much greater SPL potential since most 8" unpowered speaker cabs have fairly low power handling capabilities.

Thanks for your input! Because of liking the flexibility of having different cabinet choices, (and oftentimes pairing them up) at this point I would not consider a powered speaker.

[YamahaGuy]

Originally Posted by Robert H.

I'm more of a Tele player, but I do sometimes play a steel string acoustic. I don't have a dedicated acoustic amp, nor do I feel I really need one. Currently I run my acoustic into a Quilter Mini Head; there's a low gain jazz setting that sounds quite good for acoustic. I'm running it into an 1X8 enclosure with a mid-range Celestion that at least has a broader frequency range than a normal electric guitar speaker, (it's 70-6000 hrz) but I'm wondering if a smaller passive PA speaker might be a better choice? This would not be used for vocals, just acoustic guitar. Any thoughts?

I can't imagine a smaller passive pa speaker working any better than your current rig. Maybe a line array might be something different that could give you better dispersion and coverage. Or even a custom built cab with a wave guide and a woofer crossed over properly. Either way though, the cab would end up being bigger. Those little hot spot monitors are usually designed for vocals.

Best of luck.

[Robert H.]

Originally Posted by YamahaGuy

I can't imagine a smaller passive pa speaker working any better than your current rig. Maybe a line array might be something different that could give you better dispersion and coverage. Or even a custom built cab with a wave guide and a woofer crossed over properly. Either way though, the cab would end up being bigger. Those little hot spot monitors are usually designed for vocals.

Best of luck.

Thanks! When I indicated smaller, I didn't mean smaller than the 1X8 I'm using, just not a large passive cabinet. And the PA speaker idea was because I've noticed a lot of the forum members here either play through an acoustic amp or a powered monitor, like a QSC K8. Definitely would not want something specifically "tuned" for vocals.

[ricdoug]

You could add a switchable tweeter and crossover to your Quilter to enhance the overtones of your acoustic guitar, Robert, would transform your current high quality amplifier into a multi-function amplifier. You could either mount the tweeter and crossover internally to the speaker board of your quilter, or add a parallel jack to your Quilter to plug in a custom crossover/tweeter cabinet/tweeter array of your own design. Ric

http://www.tune-town.com/Cars/stuff/.../crossover.pdf

https://www.speakerworks.com/crossover_parts_s/36.htm

http://www.newark.com/c/security-aud...nction=tweeter

[Robert H.]

[QUOTE=ricdoug;5668642]You could add a switchable tweeter and crossover to your Quilter to enhance the overtones of your acoustic guitar, Robert, would transform your current high quality amplifier into a multi-function amplifier. You could either mount the tweeter and crossover internally to the speaker board of your quilter, or add a parallel jack to your Quilter to plug in a custom crossover/tweeter cabinet/tweeter array of your own design. Ric

Thanks Ric! My Quilter head does have two speaker inputs. (one rated at 8 Ohms and the extension rated at 4; though Quilter does indicate you have some leeway there) Could I plug a tweeter with crossover cabinet into the 2nd speaker input, or would I have to have a parallel jack running from the original speaker cabinet?

[Robert H.]

At this point I'm thinking something like a passive, 2-way PA speaker might be the way to go. Because of having both a woofer and a tweeter the frequency response usually runs from around 60 Hz to 20 KHz. Most of these speakers are, of course, designed with vocals in mind; any suggestions as to how they might work for acoustic guitar? Again, I have a really nice solid state amp head, so I'd rather not purchase either a dedicated acoustic amp or a powered speaker if I don't have to. Thanks to all who have chimed in on this!

[Br1ck]

Is the pickup in your guitar a piezo like a K&K, or an undersaddle piezo? Any piezo needs to see the proper input impedance . If you have an onboard pre like a Taylor system, you can plug into most anything. The typical electric guitar amp will not have the 1 Meg Ohm or higher input impedance.

You will sound better through the most full frequency speaker cab you can get. Just because a speaker is rated 40 to 20K does not mean it is flat across the spectrum. Most guitar speakers favor mids and are designed to have a certain built in tone which is not what you typically want for acoustic.

That said, if you like the sound of your acoustic through the Quilter, I'm not going to say it's wrong, but if you have no active onboard electrics in your guitar, you need a pre or DI with the proper input impedance to smooth out the piezo harshness.

It happens that what makes vocals sound good is pretty much what makes acoustics sound good too.

[Robert H.]

Originally Posted by Br1ck

Is the pickup in your guitar a piezo like a K&K, or an undersaddle piezo? Any piezo needs to see the proper input impedance . If you have an onboard pre like a Taylor system, you can plug into most anything. The typical electric guitar amp will not have the 1 Meg Ohm or higher input impedance.

You will sound better through the most full frequency speaker cab you can get. Just because a speaker is rated 40 to 20K does not mean it is flat across the spectrum. Most guitar speakers favor mids and are designed to have a certain built in tone which is not what you typically want for acoustic.

That said, if you like the sound of your acoustic through the Quilter, I'm not going to say it's wrong, but if you have no active onboard electrics in your guitar, you need a pre or DI with the proper input impedance to smooth out the piezo harshness.

It happens that what makes vocals sound good is pretty much what makes acoustics sound good too.

Thanks for the info. The pickup I use is a soundhole pickup; (Fishman Rare Earth Humbucker) I've never been a big fan of piezos. So it is active, in that it's battery driven, but only has a built in volume wheel. So any EQing comes from the amp.

[Robert H.]

I ended up picking up an inexpensive, small FRFR passive PA speaker as a way to compare to the Celestion TF0818 cab. It does sound a great deal better; the fact that it is a 2-way design allows for more of the upper frequencies, which makes the guitar sound far more like it sounds unplugged. Certainly loud enough for a coffeehouse sized gig. Thanks to everyone who took the time to give me their thoughts on this.

[MikeBmusic]

The difference in an acoustic amp or PA speaker is in the high end (over 6 KHz of your current set up). I doubt your Quilter has anything up in that range (most electric guitar amps don't), so you're unlikely to hear any difference by going to a PA speaker.

[Livingston]

Originally Posted by Robert H.

I ended up picking up an inexpensive, small FRFR passive PA speaker as a way to compare to the Celestion TF0818 cab. It does sound a great deal better; the fact that it is a 2-way design allows for more of the upper frequencies, which makes the guitar sound far more like it sounds unplugged. Certainly loud enough for a coffeehouse sized gig. Thanks to everyone who took the time to give me their thoughts on this.

I am using a 12" PA speaker (Yamaha) with an Acoustic Image Clarus 2R amp head as my acoustic setup. I've also used the same PA speaker with a Quilter Pro Block 200 head and have gotten similar results; but I mostly use the Clarus amp. I think you will be happy with your decision to use a passive PA speaker.

[lschwart]

Originally Posted by Robert H.

I ended up picking up an inexpensive, small FRFR passive PA speaker as a way to compare to the Celestion TF0818 cab. It does sound a great deal better; the fact that it is a 2-way design allows for more of the upper frequencies, which makes the guitar sound far more like it sounds unplugged. Certainly loud enough for a coffeehouse sized gig. Thanks to everyone who took the time to give me their thoughts on this.

I'm late to the conversation, and I'm glad you discovered that this works. I was going to suggest it based on my own experience a few years back running a passive 2 way PA cab directly from the power amp output of my Genz Benz ProLT, which essentially turned the acoustic amp into a head/passive PA speaker set up. The speaker was a Yorkville YX15, and it sounded really, really good--much better than the humble specs of that speaker suggested it might. I'd have kept using it if it hadn't been so ****ed unwieldy--and while it had better dispersion than the speaker in the amp itself, it was different tonally without being really better.

Eventually I switched to a PA system with a passive mixer and powered PA speakers, and the amp was relegated to the rehearsal room and for the use of our acoustic bass player on stage for the full band.

Louis