The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Acoustic Amplification

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #16  
Old 01-11-2018, 06:02 AM
J.DrewPetersen J.DrewPetersen is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Southern Colorado
Posts: 256
Default EV

I've been gigging the last year with a Fishman Artist and recently added an Electro-Voice ZLX 112P powered speaker, along with an Allen & Heath zedi-10fx mixer. The EV speaker is very clean sounding and has tons more headroom than the Fishman, which has to be cranked up hard in most venues,
which sounds okay, but the depth & character of the tone with the larger EV speaker is WAY better. The plan is to later add a 2nd ZLX12P, but using just one has been amazing so far. The Fishman still comes out for use as a monitor, still love it but honestly it's borderline on it's own. The EV 112P was $349 online. Worth a look based on your need...
__________________
2020 CD "Warble"(instrumental) https://johndrewpetersen.bandcamp.com/
2017 CD "Faint But Visible" (instrumental): https://johndrewpetersen.bandcamp.com/
1996 CD "Cat's Pajamas": https://open.spotify.com/album/2U3C6wKaWmDKf9eBjYiWjd
YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCY3...w6Mc8J1GOpLzZQ
Blog: http://jdpmm.blogspot.com/
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 01-11-2018, 08:41 AM
kaos kaos is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: North Chili, NY
Posts: 943
Default

The problem I see with a powered speaker is that if it does not have eq and effects, then you need a mixer, more cables, and another power outlet. This is one of the reasons that led me to looking into the Line6 L2T.
__________________
Gibson J45tv / LG2 AE / Dove Ltd. Trans Ebony / AJ
Martin D18 (custom shop) / HD35 / 00-16DBM
Taylor DN3 / Baby
Guild GAD25
Yamaha FG413S / FG200 / FG800
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 01-13-2018, 12:48 PM
Marty C Marty C is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 1,223
Default Thank you!

Thanks for all your replies. I truely appreciate your input. Not sure yet the direction I will go. Kind of leaning toward a QSC 8.2. From all the reviews, it looks like I can’t go wrong. I believe it will work well with just my TX Helicon Play Acoustic. Since the speaker has a great EQ, I think this should work well without a mixer. Nice compact setup but able to get loud if needed without losing too much.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 01-13-2018, 03:31 PM
lschwart lschwart is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 2,796
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty C View Post
Thanks for all your replies. I truely appreciate your input. Not sure yet the direction I will go. Kind of leaning toward a QSC 8.2. From all the reviews, it looks like I can’t go wrong. I believe it will work well with just my TX Helicon Play Acoustic. Since the speaker has a great EQ, I think this should work well without a mixer. Nice compact setup but able to get loud if needed without losing too much.
That will be a very flexible and simple set up for you. Get a tripod stand so you can put the speaker behind you, up over head height. In many of the situations you describe that will be all you need. When you need enough volume that you hit either the feedback threshold or the ear comfort threshold with the speaker behind you, you'll be able to put the speaker in front of you, and the Fishman Mini will serve as a good monitor. If you ever play with someone else, you have the XR12.

Louis
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 01-13-2018, 10:58 PM
Tommy_G Tommy_G is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 135
Default

My dog runs downstairs to the farthest corner of the house when I use my Fishman Mini as a PA. Its piezo must really be out of control. I noticed when a restaurant recorded our trio one night, there was a high freq artifact on the recording that was wayy high pitch. At least the Artist has a control to roll off the piezo.

That said, the Mini sounds better to me than an Alto Trouper, which has muddy lower mids and inadequate lows below 100Hz. Honestly.

I demoed a cheap Behringer powered speaker with a horn and a 15 inch woofer and that had a hyped but..." Holy eff is that me" kind of rocknrollstar tone. Very open and deeeep in the bass.

I will say that buying PA stuff is difficult because as soon as you push past entry level budget stuff, the options are endless.

If I didnt have the Mini I would not buy... I would go powered monitor for sure.

Last edited by Tommy_G; 01-13-2018 at 11:07 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 09-09-2019, 08:17 AM
JackB1 JackB1 is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 3,302
Default

Is the reason for putting the speaker high over your head to eliminate feedback or to push the sound deeper into the room? If it's a small bar with say 25 people, could you just leave the speaker on the floor angled up or at waist height?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lschwart View Post
Get a tripod stand so you can put the speaker behind you, up over head height. In many of the situations you describe that will be all you need. When you need enough volume that you hit either the feedback threshold or the ear comfort threshold with the speaker behind you, you'll be able to put the speaker in front of you, and the Fishman Mini will serve as a good monitor. If you ever play with someone else, you have the XR12.

Louis
__________________
Gear: PRS Hollowbody II Piezo, Martin HPL 000, PRS Angelus A60E, Martin 000-15M
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 09-09-2019, 09:16 AM
lschwart lschwart is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 2,796
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JackB1 View Post
Is the reason for putting the speaker high over your head to eliminate feedback or to push the sound deeper into the room? If it's a small bar with say 25 people, could you just leave the speaker on the floor angled up or at waist height?
You don't need a lot of volume to play for 25 people, so in many situations various speaker placements will work, but having the speaker up on a stand will maximize the speaker's ability to spread sound evenly across the space. Most PA speakers have a wider horizontal dispersion pattern and a narrower vertical one, and most of them are designed to be used upright to address a room and on their sides for monitoring purposes. The advantages of that design should be pretty clear--you get wider dispersion fo the room and for monitoring you keep the sound more narrowly focused on whoever needs to hear a given monitor. Also placing a speaker on the floor will increase the bass frequencies, so that can cause muddiness or feedback problems unless there's a setting that lets you cut the bass.

When the speaker is high and behind, the sound for the most part passes just over the head of the performer on it's way out to the room. Also the performer's head and body act as a shield that raises the gain before feedback threshold for both the mic and guitar--usually enough in a small venue to give you more than enough volume for the room. And of course no monitor is needed because in that position the performer can usually hear more than enough of themselves. Sometimes a little more gain before feedback can be squeezed out with the speaker behind and to one side, especially on the neck side of the guitar and with a supercardioid or hypercardioid mic that has good side rejection. But when volume needs get above the threshold or the tolerance of the performer's ears, the speaker needs to be out front and some sort of monitor becomes necessary.

Louis
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 09-09-2019, 10:56 AM
ljguitar's Avatar
ljguitar ljguitar is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: wyoming
Posts: 42,556
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JackB1 View Post
Is the reason for putting the speaker high over your head to eliminate feedback or to push the sound deeper into the room? If it's a small bar with say 25 people, could you just leave the speaker on the floor angled up or at waist height?
Hi JackB1

Firing sound into a room is like firing an arrow into a room.

Each frequency is directional, and it falls as it travels (and drifts on the wind if you are out-of-doors). High frequency falls quicker than midrange which falls faster than bass frequencies.

Advantages to elevating speakers range from covering a balcony, or reaching the back of the room with better sound, and not firing the bass frequencies into the people in the front rows (which can reduce the bass substantially). Better designed cabinets control the dispersion of the sound better so you don't have a single 'hot' line of sound coming out of cabinets, but rather the sound is shaped like a waffle cone (ice cream cone) with the point of the cone emerging from the speaker and the rounded end of the cone pointed toward the center of the back of a room.

A by product of firing cabinets from above and from behind is they serve as monitors and you know exactly what's coming out of the speakers.

This is a very brief description, and it's really applicable to average rooms/venues.



__________________

Baby #1.1
Baby #1.2
Baby #02
Baby #03
Baby #04
Baby #05

Larry's songs...

…Just because you've argued someone into silence doesn't mean you have convinced them…
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 09-09-2019, 12:45 PM
phcorrigan phcorrigan is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 2,412
Default

You have a great mixer, so I would say powered speaker.

I'm not convinced you need to spend $500-600 to get decent sound. A venue I play recently bought a pair of these, and they sound great: https://www.guitarcenter.com/Alto/TX...00000205828.gc

I have a pair of Behringer B208D speakers and I'm quite happy with the sound: https://www.guitarcenter.com/Behring...74115050354.gc

I bought mine used, but If I were to do it again, and if I were buying new, I'd probably get the 10" or 12" version.

I would recommend getting a speaker stand or stands, so you can raise the speakers above the heads of those in front. They don't have to cost a fortune. I have these: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

What ever you buy, go listen to them first if you can. If you have a Guitar Center store nearby they usually stock a pretty representative selection of powered speakers. Also, avoid the big, cheap 15" speakers because they usually sound like crap, with muddy mid-ranges.
__________________
Patrick

2012 Martin HD-28V
1984 Martin Shenandoah D-2832
2018 Gretsch G5420TG
Oscar Schmidt Autoharp, unknown vintage
ToneDexter
Bugera V22 Infinium
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 09-09-2019, 12:55 PM
Chipotle Chipotle is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 2,300
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty C View Post
Went to look at a QSC K8.2 today. Expensive, but what an awesome speaker. I think I need to sell some stuff to make room in my budget for this extra $200.00.
You can look used, or try a QSC CP8, which is $100 under your budget. At least one user here (jonfields45?) uses one.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 09-09-2019, 03:13 PM
Paleolith54 Paleolith54 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Desert Hills, AZ
Posts: 1,373
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty C View Post
Thanks Jake. Is QSC considered among the best? I read tons of reviews and many people commented on the great sound, but they rarely mentioned acoustic guitar or vocals. Usually just mention "loud and clear" for a band setting. That is actually a choice I was looking at as well as the K8.2. I don't need 2000 Watts, but the light weight and digital EQ would be nice to have with the Play Acoustic. And I rarely saw anyone mention these for something other than monitors. And always as a pair.

I am certainly open to try them. They have glowing reviews on here.

Anyone else using QSC K8 or K10? Just as a single sound sourse.
I use a K12 (a 10 would probably be better for you) and vocals and guitar sound great through it. I also have the first-generation Alto Trusonic 10", vocals sound fine but I find it hard to get a good instrument sound through it. I use it as a floor monitor in my loud electric band.

Watch Craigslist, you are quite likely to find people moving their first gen QSC K-series speakers, and in your price range. I'd say QSC are definitely among the best live-performance speakers for average players; audiophiles sneer at them a fair amount, but they also tend to hate Bose even more, so you can decide how much that matters to you.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 09-09-2019, 04:52 PM
jonfields45 jonfields45 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Allentown, PA
Posts: 4,598
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chipotle View Post
You can look used, or try a QSC CP8, which is $100 under your budget. At least one user here (jonfields45?) uses one.
Yup that's me. It works well and has better bass response than the 10"powered speaker it replaced (we use it for bass guitar for about a third of our repertoire). Speaker size, and speaker throw (never quoted), and cabinet design (hard to brag about), are the three big variables in bass response. I would not get so carried away with woofer size.
__________________
jf45ir Free DIY Acoustic Guitar IR Generator
.wav file, 30 seconds, pickup left, mic right, open position strumming best...send to direct email below
I'll send you 100/0, 75/25, 50/50 & 0/100 IR/Bypass IRs
IR Demo, read the description too: https://youtu.be/SELEE4yugjE
My duo's website and my email... [email protected]

Jon Fields
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 09-09-2019, 05:18 PM
wguitar wguitar is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,810
Default

Marty,

I play similar size gigs, shopped around, and just ordered a Fishman Loudbox Artist BT from Sweetwater. Didn't really need the Bluetooth but when he offered it to me for $549 (after asking for best price) (GC is $649) I decided to buy it. Did quite a bit of shopping this past week and the other one I considered was $490 Used/Mint on Reverb (SamAsh) with Sam Ash 1 year warranty (NO Bluetooth).

Like you, I sought guidance from AGF folks and there's a lot of love on AGF for the Fishman Loudbox Artist.

Good luck in your search!
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 09-11-2019, 07:40 AM
JackB1 JackB1 is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 3,302
Default

Either a mixer with effects or a unit like the TCH Play Acoustic, which gives you all the effects you need and then just plug into the powered speaker. I would only add a mixer if you needed more channels.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kaos View Post
The problem I see with a powered speaker is that if it does not have eq and effects, then you need a mixer, more cables, and another power outlet. This is one of the reasons that led me to looking into the Line6 L2T.
__________________
Gear: PRS Hollowbody II Piezo, Martin HPL 000, PRS Angelus A60E, Martin 000-15M
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 09-11-2019, 01:38 PM
Lost in Sound Lost in Sound is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 82
Default

I do also find the addition of a little mixer gives me a lot more headroom out of my powered speaker, as opposed to just going straight into the speaker with a mic and guitar input.
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Acoustic Amplification

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:58 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=