SE Electronics 2200 Mic & Avantone CK-1?

[Kindness]

Thoughts about these two mics? Sweetwater said that the CK 1 is ridiculously good mic for the price.


http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/sE2200a2C/


http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/CK1/

Thanks for your help!

[alohachris]

Aloha Itself,

Sweetwater guys have contests to promote certain products. So get good advice from them, but take their product suggestions w/ a grain of salt. Use their free catalogue (order online) to educate yourself first.

Try out vocal mic's before you buy because they are completely voice-specific. Let your voice decide.

The SE220 - merely ok, IMO. Avantone CK-1 - Pretty good for the price.

The best entry-level condenser mic's for your goals, IMO (I've auditioned or owned all of these):

ADK A6 LDC - Detailed, open, warm, & very musical. Two of these will make you very happy on guitar. One is great on vocals. $220 new. Love this mic!

Oktava MK-012 SDC - Really great SDC's. Upgradeable by Michael Joly (check his site). Two of these are great for stereo recording a guitar. Under $200. Pairs are found at gearslutz used for under $150.

AKG 535 vocal - Two of these classics & you're set for live, recording, vocal & guitar applications. Used around $150. You must try one of these before you buy the others. My main live vocal mic since 1980. Many famous male & female voices continue to use this mic.

Recording: Record vocals & guitar on separate tracks. Better mixing control, separation & less bleed. EX: You can use different reverbs more easily on separate tracks for voice & guitar.

More later.

alohachris

[Kindness]

Thank you SO much for this advice! I really appreciate it. A lot to learn here and everyone has been so helpful.

[sdelsolray]

Originally Posted by itself

Thoughts about these two mics? Sweetwater said that the CK 1 is ridiculously good mic for the price.


http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/sE2200a2C/


http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/CK1/

Thanks for your help!

Vocal mics are fairly singer-specific. SE Electronics mics generally have a good reputation and track record. I haven't tried the sE2200a so I can't comment about how it will work with your voice.

I have used the Avantone CK1, among other Avantone mics. This is another good mic company that provides excellent mics for the price, and the new owners really take care of customers (personal experience concerning a pair of Avantone C28 mics). The CK1 is a bit bright and the noise is a minor concern (but still acceptable even for solo guitar). The three different capsules add versatility. I liked the omni cap the most, but that wouldn't be the best choice for recording guitar and voice at the same time along with the other mic. The mic is certainly worth the silly low price. But for a bit more you can get an Oktava MC-012, albeit with only one capsule.

[Kindness]

Originally Posted by alohachris

Aloha Itself,

Sweetwater guys have contests to promote certain products. So get good advice from them, but take their product suggestions w/ a grain of salt. Use their free catalogue (order online) to educate yourself first.

Try out vocal mic's before you buy because they are completely voice-specific. Let your voice decide.

The SE220 - merely ok, IMO. Avantone CK-1 - Pretty good for the price.

The best entry-level condenser mic's for your goals, IMO (I've auditioned or owned all of these):

ADK A6 LDC - Detailed, open, warm, & very musical. Two of these will make you very happy on guitar. One is great on vocals. $220 new. Love this mic!

Oktava MK-12 SDC - Really great SDC's. Upgradeable by Michael Joly (check his site). Two of these are great for stereo recording a guitar. Under $200. Pairs are found at gearslutz used for under $150.

AKG 535 vocal - Two of these classics & you're set for live, recording, vocal & guitar applications. Used around $150. You must try one of these before you buy the others. My main live vocal mic since 1980. Many famous male & female voices continue to use this mic.

[B]Recording: Record vocals & guitar on separate tracks. Better mixing control, separation & less bleed. EX: You can use different reverbs more easily on separate tracks for voice & guitar.[/B]
More later.

alohachris

Yes, Todd at soundpure said recording on separate tracks is important. Decisions. I need a simple system to do this. Apogee Duet or USB32 Sound Devices or Quartet?

I will be sure to try the AKG 535. Having already experienced their incredible headphones, I have not doubt their mics are probably great too.

I can't thank you enough...

[Rudy4]

RE: Avantone CK-1s
I have a pair of these and I like the sound, but there are other aspects that I don't like.

The first one I had went back after a few months when the body came loose from the XLR connector. It was such a poor fit that the assembly screw wouldn't even hold it together. Warranty replacement, so no problem. I figured anybody can make a mistake, so I bought another so I'd have a pair.

The bigger issue for me now (on both) is very poor machining on the capsule to barrel thread fit. It's difficult to change capsules and one of them will pop off if I'm not careful. If I have to change capsules I cross my fingers.

They have bass roll off switches and attenuation pads, but both of them actually develop fairly high self-noise when the switches are used, so that pretty much negates using roll off or attenuation switches for me.

They have a shock mount that you'll want to display on your coffee table, no kidding.

Much as I love the looks, and the capsules all sound great, particularly the cardiod, I think the implementation is just too shoddy to recommend. Maybe I just got three that weren't top shelf quality. I would have gladly traded a bit more care in the machine work and component fit for the wooden case they come shipped in.

I really decided on the CK1s for the omni capsule, but it was a high price to pay.

[alohachris]

Aloha Lisa,

Re: Recording. Although I & many player/recordists do experiment a lot with mic combo's & placement: one, two, three, four mic's at a time, capsules & combo's, large & small, etc., I always come back to recording an acoustic guitar with a simple pair of SDC's - a matched pair, same model one serial number apart.

The results I get using a matched SDC set in different miking patterns: spaced-pairs (usually), coincident X-Y, over-shoulder/12th fret, etc. are most reliable, consistent & in the end, get me the sound I'm looking for.

You can mix & match mic's like the SE2200 & Avantone CK1. But it's usually NOT the first choice for the best results. Again, I encourage you to experiment A LOT - especially with placement. That is where some of the basic magic is for tracking an acoustic instrument.

If you get a pair of A6's, MK-012's or 535's, all you would need is a two-channel Apogee Duet - assuming you use a Mac. The Duet has simply wonderful on-board preamps. You can achieve a real pro result with it. BTW:

Here's a pair of A6's used by Al Petteway for his Dream Guitars samples (Hit Video tab, Scroll down & hit the arrow):

http://www.dreamguitars.com/detail/2...reek_fs_32127/

Here's what an MK-012 ia capable of after Michael Joly's mod (sounds like the legendary KM-84):

http://www.oktavamodshop.com/product...products_id=35

Here's JT singing through a 535. Sting, McCarthney, Richie havens, Alison Krauss, Barbra Streisand, & Ben Harper - very different types of voices all use this mic. Many Soundguys use the 535 on acoustic instruments too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-T35WXFOmwI

The other interfaces you mentioned are also great. But you only need something like the Quartet or bigger Ensemble that I have, if you'll be using more mic's & need the inputs. Most of us think we will. But most players don't need more than two-channels & record mostly in that mode. I'd start w/ the Duet at first.

The reason I moved up to the Ensemble was that I was experimenting with close-miking in X-Y a pair of SDC's, and, after my space was fully treated, was combining that with two great LDC's in a widely spaced pair a few feet out for more room. I got some pretty full sounding results with that four- mic configuration. But I still use the Duet a lot as well & record mostly in two channels.

I also had similar results using more mic combo's in M-S recording. But you really need a treated space to use more than two mic's & omni's & ribbon mic's.

Question: Is your space treated, Lisa? If not, then don't upgrade to ANY new gear yet, especiaily mic's until you do it. ROOM TREATMENT is not sexy, but it is absolutely necesssary for controlling room reflections when using mic's.

Treatment will produce the most dramatic improvements to your recordings in the beginning - even if all you use is your H2. It's actually more important than the gear at first. Really!

It doesn't have to be permanent, immobile or expensive. Go to some of our past discussions re: treatment for clues. Check out gearslutz "Studio Treatment" forum for more. It really is what you need to do first, before you get new mic's & something like a Quartet.

Here are some more DIY clues from Fran Guidry. I made 22 of these & really control my space. Six is about all you need & they are easy to make. You can configure them into vocal or tracking booths within your room.

http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2009/...-on-the-cheap/

http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2011/...adband-panels/

Also get some used movers blankets (usually free) from a movers. Wash 'em, hammer in 1/2" grommets along one folded over edge to hang them with. Then, hang one layer 4" off the walls & windows & another layer 4" closer in front of that - or around where you track.

That really helps control the mid's. But not the bass reflections. So you will need some of those 4"x2'x4' Owens-Corning 703 fiberglass broad-band absorbers. If you make them yourself you will save thousands! And get the result you're looking for.

Until your treat your room, Lisa, you'll pretty much be limited to close-miking. There are lots of pattern & mic placement limitations in an untreated space. So give it your priority first before you get new gear. Trust me on this one. You need a treated space for recording using mic's. Lisa. No way around it.

By treating, you will be able to maximize ANY level of gear or mic's as your interests & skills move you up the gear trough into better signal chains.

PM me if you have questions or want more resources on this topic

I also have other sources, resources & methods for trying out gear at home before you buy that won't cost much.

A Hui Hou, Lisa!

alohachris

[Kindness]

Alohachris,

The second video is an excellent demonstration of how just two of those boards affect the sound. And how easy a solution is that.

Simple. My goal is simple and you have helped confirm that the Duet is the right direction to go. That will give me the amp for the headphones that I am looking for. Record separate tracks which I hope will not be complicated (soundpure confused me saying I would need a metronome to sync the two separate tracks, etc!)

Interestingly, I am hearing that I can go with one Small Condensor mic and one large diaphram for recording guitar, so that I don't have to buy a third. The large diaphram obviously to double for vocals.

Thank you again...