Recording classical/flamenco guitar

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by Guitarist-1977

Your recording sounds really good and natural. I am starting to experiment with onboard capsule on zoom 6, but I am getting a weird effect. As I sit parallel to the capsule like 12" away (pointed at 12 fret) one mic is significantly higher than the other due to xy pattern on the capsule. I end up sitting at 45 degrees to the capsule to capture balanced sound on both channels but the sound is a bit boomy. Is this just a natural limitation of the onboard capsule? Or am I doing something off? Thx

With XY close-mic'd that's going to happen. Just look at the mics to see what's going on - 1 is aimed generally at the body/soundhole, which produces a lot of sound. The other is aimed at the neck, which produces little sound. As Rick says, one approach is to back up, so you're not so directly aimed at different parts of the guitar and are picking up the guitar in the room. That may work if your room acoustics are good. Another approach, for less ideal acoustic spaces, is to center the mics on the body of the guitar. You'll need to experiment with mic placement to avoid the soundhole as much as you can. For me, raised above the soundhole, about even with the waist of the guitar usually works. Raise it more if you still get too much boom, lower if you need more low end.

But your external mics will likely sound better, and definitely be more flexible than the fixed XY mics on the H6. There's lots of stuff about mic placement, recording guitar in general, room acoustics and so on in the sticky posts at the top of the recording section. The following video uses a steel string, but you might still find it useful, I'd do the same with a nylon guitar:

[Guitarist-1977]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

With XY close-mic'd that's going to happen. Just look at the mics to see what's going on - 1 is aimed generally at the body/soundhole, which produces a lot of sound. The other is aimed at the neck, which produces little sound. As Rick says, one approach is to back up, so you're not so directly aimed at different parts of the guitar and are picking up the guitar in the room. That may work if your room acoustics are good. Another approach, for less ideal acoustic spaces, is to center the mics on the body of the guitar. You'll need to experiment with mic placement to avoid the soundhole as much as you can. For me, raised above the soundhole, about even with the waist of the guitar usually works. Raise it more if you still get too much boom, lower if you need more low end.

But your external mics will likely sound better, and definitely be more flexible than the fixed XY mics on the H6. There's lots of stuff about mic placement, recording guitar in general, room acoustics and so on in the sticky posts at the top of the recording section. The following video uses a steel string, but you might still find it useful, I'd do the same with a nylon guitar:

Thanks for sharing the video, very helpful. So I guess I am up against the xy pattern in general. When I move away from the mic (my room is not treated) the sound gets weaker even at a gain of 10.
Will prolly have to get a mic bar to use my akg perception 170 sdc mics.

[Guitarist-1977]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

IMO too close to the guitar. I would go at least 18" out. Might try a vertical XY (rotate your zoom 90 degrees). I prefer a spaced pair of mikes. I genereally dont like the sound of XY.

Will tey moving away from the mics but the signal gets very weak. I have the onboard capsules at 120degrees as the 90degrees sounds harsh a bit to me.

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by Guitarist-1977

Will tey moving away from the mics but the signal gets very weak. I have the onboard capsules at 120degrees as the 90degrees sounds harsh a bit to me.

If you have access to a home shop you might think about making up a specialized bar that would hold your P-170s in the "correct" spaced position relative to your guitar posture. I have a pair of P-170s and they do a good job for their price point. Here's an example of a shop-made bar, using a $50 pair of Behringer C-2 pencil SDCs.

[Guitarist-1977]

Sorry for changing gear, I am struggling to download the Cubase LE version, it keeps saying no license found. Isnt the LE version free?
I keep looking for a license code in the Zoom H6 box but cannot find any!

Any thoughts please?

Thx a lot

[Guitarist-1977]

Originally Posted by Rudy4

If you have access to a home shop you might think about making up a specialized bar that would hold your P-170s in the "correct" spaced position relative to your guitar posture. I have a pair of P-170s and they do a good job for their price point. Here's an example of a shop-made bar, using a $50 pair of Behringer C-2 pencil SDCs.

Thx I think I saw a nice wide bar on amazon that is more spaced that the typical bar. So will try this first, good to see ppl using the P170. I thought I am the only one 😀😀

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by Guitarist-1977

Thanks for sharing the video, very helpful. So I guess I am up against the xy pattern in general. When I move away from the mic (my room is not treated) the sound gets weaker even at a gain of 10.
Will prolly have to get a mic bar to use my akg perception 170 sdc mics.

Distant micing at home in poor acoustics rarely works well. It's great in a good studio. The easiest and most forgiving setup for home recording is spaced pairs, with the mics as close as you can get them without sounding too boomy. Volume can be due to a low-gain interface, or just that you're playing quietly. Many people get nervous when they see mics and clam up, playing too softly. Play like you're in a concert hall, and need to get the sound to the back of the room, not like you have mics listening from a few inches away.

Also, with modern digital recording, you don't really have to have to record at full volume, so that is a minor issue. You can always raise the volume to release level in the DAW.

A mic bar is a "nice to have" for XY and a few other mic placements, but not necessary. You can use 2 mic stands with no problem. Just a bit clunkier. But for spaced pairs, 2 mic stands gives you more freedom to place the mics in the best spots.

I'd really suggest spending a few hours going thru all the tutorials and info in the sticky post at the top of the Recording forum. Jim has done an amazing job of compiling useful info there. It will probably save you years of struggling.

[Guitarist-1977]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Distant micing at home in poor acoustics rarely works well. It's great in a good studio. The easiest and most forgiving setup for home recording is spaced pairs, with the mics as close as you can get them without sounding too boomy. Volume can be due to a low-gain interface, or just that you're playing quietly. Many people get nervous when they see mics and clam up, playing too softly. Play like you're in a concert hall, and need to get the sound to the back of the room, not like you have mics listening from a few inches away.

Also, with modern digital recording, you don't really have to have to record at full volume, so that is a minor issue. You can always raise the volume to release level in the DAW.

A mic bar is a "nice to have" for XY and a few other mic placements, but not necessary. You can use 2 mic stands with no problem. Just a bit clunkier. But for spaced pairs, 2 mic stands gives you more freedom to place the mics in the best spots.

I'd really suggest spending a few hours going thru all the tutorials and info in the sticky post at the top of the Recording forum. Jim has done an amazing job of compiling useful info there. It will probably save you years of struggling.

Thanks a lot Doug. Will check the videos.
Few points to note:
1. Struggling with Cubsse LE now as I cannot set it up as i mentioned. Another other easier free daw to use?
2. I get tense when I am in record in general lol. Also cause have some difficulty in my right hand so my playing is a bit lower than usual volume wise. So pushing the mics away dont help much.
3. I have me eyes on a space bar from Amazon but cannot send it here
Thx a lot

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by Guitarist-1977

Thanks a lot Doug. Will check the videos.
Few points to note:
1. Struggling with Cubsse LE now as I cannot set it up as i mentioned. Another other easier free daw to use?
2. I get tense when I am in record in general lol. Also cause have some difficulty in my right hand so my playing is a bit lower than usual volume wise. So pushing the mics away dont help much.
3. I have me eyes on a space bar from Amazon but cannot send it here
Thx a lot

I don't use Cubase. But all DAWs are very similar these days, and all have a learning curve, with the hardware setup being the most common stumbling block. I'm sure there are tutorials on setting up and using Cubase online. Probably a Cubase forum where you can ask questions?

"Red Light Fever" is a common thing. Like Stage Fright, but when recording. The answer is to do it until you get comfortable. There should be no pressure, no one needs to hear your recording but you ( and you don't even have to listen to it!). But stage fright isn't rational, so you just have to work thru it. Relax and have fun with it.

You'd get a lot more direct responses, maybe even from a Cubase user, if you post in the Recording section instead of here. Not all the recording enthusiasts and experts read the classical forum.

[Guitarist-1977]

I just tried the two SDC AKG p170 just resting them on a chair like a spaced pair (AB) and they sound much more natural than the onboard XY capsule, so i think i am going that route with the 2 SDC.

Any thoughts on the 2 below space bar options?
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002ZO5Z4...v_ov_lig_dp_it

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01ND0AKV7...ustomerReviews

None of them are that much spaced though, i like the first just because i can add another LDC in the middle if needed.

LMK what you think pls.

thx

[TBman]

I have the first space bar. It's fine.

But I use LDC mics most of the time and I like the stability of these stands below. The boom type stands that I have were getting on my nerves.

Mic stand 2 pack

[Guitarist-1977]

Originally Posted by TBman

I have the first space bar. It's fine.

But I use LDC mics most of the time and I like the stability of these stands below. The boom type stands that I have were getting on my nerves.

Mic stand 2 pack

Thanks will get the "On-Stage MY700" from the first link i have.

You are right, i will get a stand without the boom just like the one below
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002PAW6AU...lig_dp_it&th=1

Very nice playing with very good expression...thumbs up . IS this recording with LDC? or SDC?

[TBman]

Originally Posted by Guitarist-1977

Thanks will get the "On-Stage MY700" from the first link i have.

You are right, i will get a stand without the boom just like the one below
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002PAW6AU...lig_dp_it&th=1

Very nice playing with very good expression...thumbs up . IS this recording with LDC? or SDC?

Thanks, with 2 LDC. A Warm Audio WA-47Jr and a Warm Audio WA-14.

[Guitarist-1977]

I just tried a quick recording (with many mistakes lol). Even with all the fans/equipment off in my bedroom (anything that produces noise) there is a baseline noise in the recording. What is the best way to share the file? Sign up for a spotify account? Just want to run it by you guys

thanks

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by Guitarist-1977

I just tried a quick recording (with many mistakes lol). Even with all the fans/equipment off in my bedroom (anything that produces noise) there is a baseline noise in the recording. What is the best way to share the file? Sign up for a spotify account? Just want to run it by you guys

thanks

The majority of folks here tend to post SoundCloud clips.

You may want to try your AKG P170s in vertical spaced pair configuration. You can find it as technique #6 in the web archive of the old Cakewalk "Top ten microphone placement techniques" article HERE.

Check out the Jecklin Disc, too. That does require omni mics, though.