What is the best wood for violin fittings?

[scottishrogue]

I've been doing a lot of research on violins, and wonder if anyone has a preference with different woods used for the pegs, chinrest, and tailpiece.

Besides ebony, I see a lot of boxwood, rosewood, and tamarind. Is one wood better than the others? And what about using a compensated tailpiece? Do they really improve the sound or is that just hype?

Any help would be much appreciated.

Glen

[Dan Carey]

Mine (a Stewart MacDonald kit) came with boxwood fittings. I promptly swapped them out for rosewood because it looked far nicer to me.

Boxwood:


Rosewood:

[scottishrogue]

I agree Dan, the rosewood fittings look great. What tools did you use to install the sound post? Did you have to shave the pegs to fit? What finish did you use? Curious minds want to know.

Glen

[harpon]

I think rosewood generally looks best too, but CARVED fittings look great-

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Carved-Rosew...item53ee0a3847

that's not a soundpost- it's an endpin

shaping and fitting pegs can be difficult and lead to problems- so I personally have been reluctant to make changes solely for appearance sake on my fiddles there-

but if you are used to such things, then go for it-
peg hole reamers and peg shapers are generally encouraged, but you may find some pegs to fit

most pegs are sold as blanks- most run longer then than the final install, and many are not pre-drilled

The end pin is often said to need fitting as well- never replaced one myself- but how hard can it be to get a tapered pin to fit a round tapered hole when it doesn't have tro move otherwise?
I guess the danger is making it too loose- so be carefull about the hole into the body,

Tailpieces are easy to replace- the tailgut screws and unscrews at each end
I personally usually end up taking the chin rest off and not putting it back on- after playing a year I don't know if that will change
but I would like to at least try a shoulder rest, as I'm attempting some crude vibrato more these days.

the fiddlehangout.com is a great source of info, and practice/performance video. I play along to the Jukebox.

[Dan Carey]

I'll echo Harpon about the Fiddle Hangout. I got a lot of good info there.

For the sound post, I substituted a better quality piece of spruce dowel that I had on hand. It had a definite, easy to see grain pattern that I could line up to the top grain. I used the "S shaped" sound post setting tool from StewMac
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tools/Sp...t_Setters.html
as well as their sound post gauge.
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tools/Sp...xst=1&xsr=0388

The end pin I used is far from the norm. It's actually set in a larger tapered plug which is removable along with the end pin to gain access to the neck bolt. Yes, the neck bolt...I built this fiddle with a removable, shim-able neck.(a-la Taylor Guitars)

The pegs, end pin, and tailpiece that I used here have boxwood trim. I didn't want to get too fancy (it's a fiddle, not a violin...a hick like me can't play violin!)

I did not have to shave the pegs to fit, but I did have to ream the peg box holes to fit the pegs (which were technically 'pre-fitted' by the maker)

Hope this helps some. Here's a link to my build photos...someday, I'll arrange them all: http://s49.photobucket.com/user/dcarey69/story/11539

[scottishrogue]

OMG!!! harpon, that's the exact set I purchased!!! I ordered a 30 to 1 reamer, but it hasn't arrived yet. I bought materials to make my own peg shaper, and I'll be taking a lot of measurements before I start, to make sure I do it right the first time.

I bought several books about Stradivarius violins, to compare them, and find out what pegs & tailpieces were used. I never realized how many different styles of chinrests were out there! This has been quite a distraction from playing my guitars!

Glen

[Dan Carey]

I never answered the finish question...I used Behlens lacquer & vinyl sealer from Stew Mac, along with ColorTone liquid http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Finishin..._Lacquers.html

I sprayed using the Preval cartridge system Spray Unit (bought locally for less than Stew Mac prices).

Two coats of sealer, seven thin coats with 5 drops of red Color Tone liquid stain per 5oz. lacquer, sanded with 400 then 600, then 1500 grit between coats, then fogged the edges with 5 drops of brown Color Tone liquid stain per 5 oz. lacquer, sanding between coats the same as above, then two coats of clear lacquer and more sanding as above.

Final step was buffing with Color Tone swirl remover.

[scottishrogue]

Originally Posted by Dan Carey

I never answered the finish question...I used Behlens lacquer & vinyl sealer from Stew Mac, along with ColorTone liquid.

Thanks Dan for the information. It looks like a nice job. I ordered some Peg Compound yesterday, and I'm still trying to decide if I should use 4 fine tuners or just one for the E string. I had to do a small repair on the fine tuner, as the fingers had been bent and looked too far apart. It took a lot of patience to get the E string back on, and when I was ready, I tuned my violin to concert pitch and it was a big hassle. The pegs aren't holding very well, but the lube should help.

Glen

[harpon]

MOst of the fiddle people are always down on the peg compounds- do you mean the stuff to keep them from turning? I think the consensus is that it can do more harm in the long run.

I've bought several fiddles new- and evey one of them needed to have the pegs worked in a bit before they began to hold steadily- usually took about a week to settle in, and I mostly just used the pegs loose to twirl around the hole- then as the string nears tension when you want it set, you need to push in as you turn.

Keep the strings the off the sides of the box a bit, especially don't let them slip into the edge of the holes, so they don't get pinched or rub on the sides of the wood excessively. I use a small pocket knife blade to push them away from the sides as the peg gains tension.

If the pegs don't go far enough into the far side of the peg box- a common "problem" with cheaper new fiddles- the peg isn't held steady or gripping on the far side- some light very even sanding of the peg holding fine sandpaper against the taper helps get the peg into the far side farther- The last fiddle I set up had gotten small burrs on the pegs because they weren't far enough in the far side of the box to be seated evenly.

Older enlarged holes are another problem though- you generally don't want to enlarge peg holes unless they are newer and the pegs are falling short on the far side.

[Dan Carey]

harpon has nailed it when it comes to the pegs. You're better off to use nothing on them except a close fit. With a new fiddle, check how the pegs sit in the holes. If there's plenty of 'meat' on the button end, go ahead and ream the holes a bit ...mine took less than 3/4 turn in each hole to fit all the pegs properly.

Here she is after another buffing session:

[harpon]

I also like a fiddle, like other acoustic instruments- witrh a minimal finish to let the natural timbre out and through the wood- I think it's the more growing trend these days-

but as ever you have to pay more for less generally if you're talking new fiddles. My best fiddle has minimal stain and just enough clear coat to penetrate the grain, which i can still feel otherwise.
Sounds fantasystic!

So I'm always left debating with my guitars and violas and ukes- should i sand off the stupid thick clearcoat of a newer instrument just to get better sound?

the Rogue bari uke is the only one who's surface finish I've yet breached, and because it was inexpensive, a satin finish already, and formed of really thick wood that sanded down a whole bunch.

[scottishrogue]

I received my peg hole reamer today, and I'll be making my peg shaper at some point in the near future. Still in the design stage, and I'll be improving on the one in the YouTube video, and I might end up making more than just one and selling them. Before I begin shaving the pegs, I will probably do more reading. The pegs on my violin right now do not extend far enough to the far side of the peg box.

Right now, I'm looking at the different grits of sandpaper. I picked up an "assortment" a few weeks ago, but the finest is 300 grit, which I think is too rough. I have some really fine sandpaper among my guitar tools that I think is 2000 grit that should work better. I'm going to take things real slow, very cautiously thinking things through before I start shaping the replacement pegs.

Glen

[Dan Carey]

Yes, 300 is quite rough.
I got an assortment at Ace Hardware that contained 400, 600, 1200, & 1500
I finish sanded with the 1500 and then used Stew Mac Swirl Remover for the final buffing.

[scottishrogue]

Well, I made the tool for shaving the pegs. I began using a 2000 grit sandpaper, but after of twisting the peg for 2 days, I decided to try a courser grit. I tried several grits and ended up using the 300 grit. That worked well, but I stopped before I could get the peg in all the way. I want to finish it using a finer grit. I ordered a brass peg shaver that I found "on sale" so I can check the taper before I begin the final sanding. I also reamed out the hole just a little so I knew it would have the correct taper for the finished peg. The final step will be to cut the end of the peg so it extends through the box 1/8" and then I can round the edges and sand the end. It's a lot of work getting everything sized, so I'm taking little steps to make sure everything is done correctly and accurate. The peg shaper should be arriving any day now. I'm learning a lot!

Glen