No more requests of "paypal gift" on another guitar forum

[RP]

Originally Posted by dragon1952

...It's a way to offer lower prices on forums and have both parties make out a little better.

Until there's a problem, and that's the true test of seller credibility and the need for PayPal protection....

[Hoyt]

Originally Posted by Long Jon

"FROM" Andy, it's "different from", you cannot be different "TO" something.

I suppose it's marginally less offensive to my fine sensibilities than the appalling "different than".

I need a drink now.

I was actually offended by the slight to those in, or from, foreign countries.

[Hoyt]

Originally Posted by Parlorman

What SM said +1. Personally, I like PayPal a lot. I do a lot of internet transactions and don't like it when a vendor doesn't take PP.

I like PayPal too. It's a great service, and keeps one from running to a bank or Post Office for cashiers check or money order. Plus there are buyer protections.

[dragon1952]

Originally Posted by RP

Until there's a problem, and that's the true test of seller credibility and the need for PayPal protection....

Like I said, you need to use common sense and trust your gut. This works both ways here too though. I'd say the chances of a buyer screwing the seller are maybe even greater under the current system of buying "as goods" rules. And even though the item is as described the buyer still has the seller by the you know what. The "friends/family" option at least gives the honest seller more protection.

[Wengr]

I am active on the forum making the change. I see it as unfortunate. I have chosen to use ppg numerous times without incident.
Actually, I have needed more protection from paypal, than from the strangers I have transacted with.
The forum in question I assume is a privately held business, as I assume this one is, so they can do what they want. But the reduction in choice makes it less appealing for me personally.

[RP]

Originally Posted by dragon1952

Like I said, you need to use common sense and trust your gut. This works both ways here too though. I'd say the chances of a buyer screwing the seller are maybe even greater under the current system of buying "as goods" rules. And even though the item is as described the buyer still has the seller by the you know what. The "friends/family" option at least gives the honest seller more protection.

We must live in very different worlds. In my mind, it is the protection that the honest use of PayPal provides that makes some/many sellers honest. To use "honest seller" and the Friends & Family option as a means to skirt fees in the same sentence is simply an oxymoron. Common sense and trusting my gut tells me that someone using a service and a means to avoid fees which removes buyer protection is anything but honest...

[Wengr]

Originally Posted by RP

We must live in very different worlds. In my mind, it is the protection that the honest use of PayPal provides that makes some/many sellers honest. To use "honest seller" and the Friends & Family option as a means to skirt fees in the same sentence is simply an oxymoron. Common sense and trusting my gut tells me that someone using a service and a means to avoid fees which removes buyer protection is anything but honest...

In your mind is one thing - what has it been in your experience? In my experience, I have attempted to use my own judgement and have not been scammed once. Not once.
The practice of trading without paypal profiting will continue. It will just be a little less convenient under the new policy.

[RP]

Originally Posted by Wengr

In your mind is one thing - what has it been in your experience? In my experience, I have attempted to use my own judgement and have not been scammed once. Not once.

I've never been scammed either but then I wouldn't enter into a deal with someone who wanted to save a few bucks by removing any buyer protection from me. Conversely, I've sold many guitars and always absorb PayPal fees and never suggested using F&F to avoid fees. It's a slippery slope to go from cheating PayPal to cheating me as a buyer...

[Wengr]

Originally Posted by RP

I've never been scammed either but then I wouldn't enter into a deal with someone who wanted to save a few bucks by removing any buyer protection from me. Conversely, I've sold many guitars and always absorb PayPal fees and never suggested using F&F to avoid fees. It's a slippery slope to go from cheating PayPal to cheating me as a buyer...

That's a perfectly reasonable opinion, and I respect your choice to do it. I wish that the forum owners would respect the choice of those who feel differently, but it is what it is I guess.

[jhmulkey]

This issue has always been pretty clear-cut to me, and it's primarily about honesty and only secondarily about purchase protection. You're either being honest that you're paying for goods and services or you're not. No amount of rationalization or semantics can change that fact. One's opinion of PayPal or the size of the company is irrelevant. If you don't like paying the fees, then request the buyer to send a money order or cashier's check or raise your asking price so that you net what you want after fees. It's not like PayPal is the only option out there to transact business.

[Wengr]

imho, it's likely driven by concern over a reduction in forum traffic driven by bad transactions/scams,
and/or
liability issues.

[RP]

Originally Posted by Wengr

imho, it's likely driven by concern over a reduction in forum traffic driven by bad transactions/scams,
and/or
liability issues.

Originally Posted by Wengr

...I wish that the forum owners would respect the choice of those who feel differently, but it is what it is I guess.

I wonder about a forum's liability in regard to providing space for an individual member to essentially advertise an attempt to defraud PayPal. AGF has always tried to keep a wall between itself and what folks transact in the Classified section by comparing itself to an old-timey cork bulletin board and index cards with FOR SALE notices on them. However, since Mods do monitor and interact to a certain extent, that kind of tears down the wall. I think that the AGF Classifieds are a great resource and given the choice between the forum shutting them down due to potential liability and allowing members to advertising attempts to defraud PayPal, the choice is pretty clear to me....

[Wengr]

Originally Posted by RP

I wonder about a forum's liability in regard to providing space for an individual member to essentially advertise an attempt to defraud PayPal...

Yep, likely part of it.

[dragon1952]

Originally Posted by RP

We must live in very different worlds. In my mind, it is the protection that the honest use of PayPal provides that makes some/many sellers honest. To use "honest seller" and the Friends & Family option as a means to skirt fees in the same sentence is simply an oxymoron. Common sense and trusting my gut tells me that someone using a service and a means to avoid fees which removes buyer protection is anything but honest...

You missed the part about seller protection I guess. Which is non-existent I might add.

[RP]

What’s covered with PayPal Purchase Protection
You bought a book, but received a DVD
You bought an item described as “new,” but received something that was used
You purchased 3 items, but only received 2
The item was damaged during shipping
The item is missing major parts (that the seller didn’t report)
You purchased an item described as authentic, but received a knockoff instead

What’s not covered with PayPal Purchase Protection
Real estate
Motorized vehicles
Custom-made goods that aren’t received
Industrial machinery
Prepaid cards
Items that violate our policies
Anything bought in person (not over the internet)
Send Money transactions to friends or family
Disputes filed more than 180 days after the purchase for item not received and significantly not as described claims
Unauthorized transaction claims reported more than 60 days after the transaction date of the transaction
Items that were described accurately by the seller

What are the requirements for Seller Protection?
Initial Requirements
Ship to the address on the Transaction Details page. If the item was sold through your site, make sure you’re shipping the item to a confirmed address.
The item sold must be a physical, tangible item that can be shipped. This means intangible items such as digital goods and services aren’t covered.
If we request documentation or other relevant information, we ask that you respond promptly (typically within ten business days).
Your permanent address (listed in your PayPal account) must be in the United States.
Additional Requirements
For “Item Not Received” cases:
The payment must be marked “eligible” or “partially eligible” on the Transaction Details page.
You must provide online tracking to be eligible for protection.
For “Unauthorized Payment” cases:
The payment must be marked “eligible” on the Transaction Details page.
You must provide Proof of Delivery or Proof of Shipment as described below.

What isn’t covered by Seller Protection?
Most PayPal transactions are covered as long as they follow these requirements. However, there are instances where Seller Protection doesn’t apply:
Claims, chargebacks, or reversals filed because the item is significantly different from how it was described (e.g. you described an item as “new,” but sent a used one).
Intangible purchases like services, digital goods, etc.
Items picked up locally or in person.
Transactions made through PayPal Direct, Virtual Terminal, PayPal Business, or PayPal Here.
Instances where you receive multiple payments for an item.
Claims filed directly through an eBay account.
Prohibited items such as drug paraphernalia, ammunition/firearms, or counterfeit goods.
First Class Mail International, since the receipt only shows the address the order was delivered to – not the customer's address.