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  #16  
Old 10-02-2017, 04:26 AM
tonyo tonyo is offline
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Nice post. It seems I'm always considering to embrace it. Good for you in doing so. I think it would be rewarding.

I haven't totally disregarded music theory. I can handle it in small doses. Over the years I have come to understand a portion of it. To me it makes no sense to learn it in lessons. I'd rather learn it by taking a night class or a course.
Thanks. The reason I've avoided it was when I first tried to learn guitar many years ago, and even more recently when I attended beginners workshops, theory was pushed in my view far too early. Unless the goal is to become a concert musician or a studio musician, just learn to play songs at first, then embrace theory as much or as little as it suits your goals.

I'm having a ball with theory now, but then I'm a fairly technical sort of person and learning the whys and wherefores appeals to me.
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  #17  
Old 10-02-2017, 04:44 AM
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For me theory tells me the probability of what comes next in a tune. I'm a structure guy. If I understand the structure of a tune it frees me up to embellish and give the tune life. When creating tunes I know what the most likely options are. Though my knowledge is minimal what I chose to have learned serves me well. Learning by rote is not for me.
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  #18  
Old 10-02-2017, 05:39 AM
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if your playing scales right now you playing will get much better once you learn what notes not to hit. That comes with learning theory .
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  #19  
Old 10-02-2017, 05:58 AM
Silly Moustache Silly Moustache is offline
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Hi,
I've been playing guitar since, I suppose, the mid '60s.
In learning to play guitar, then Dobro, then mandolin - I did everything "wrongly".

I just "picked it up" - couldn't even get on with taking guitar lessons - as one teacher sagely said - "you are one of those people who can't be taught , but you will learn".

That has proven to be true, but I'm sure it was the long way round - and the problem it has left me with is the way that musical information has penetrated my think skull - I simply don't perceive music as tadpoles on telegraph lines, or even tablature.

For me both systems need at least a double action translation, like speaking German via English, to French, to Latin to etc.

However, if I close my eyes whilst playing I "kind of" see the music in my head - I can't explain this better.

I have learnt some aspects of theory which was explained to me in a very different way - - in a mathematical way:

The most revelatory thing was to learn (by working it out on spreadsheets!) Harmonising the scales, and by thinking more about scales using the numbering system rather than the notes.

I am currently struggling with a way to leanr the phrygian scales because I love the way it can be overlaid on ordinary western/country playing.

Having lost my singing voice due to cancer treatment, I've been thinking that maybe I should learn all those old bluegrass/fiddle tunes that I've studiously avoided for so many years, but most are learnt either by one to one teaching and/or by using tablature, but it is agony for me.

Sometimes gong to bed thinking about a tune or song works .......
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  #20  
Old 10-02-2017, 01:46 PM
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...As I explained to my wife, when I meet with people who know theory, they have a conversation that I cannot understand or engage in. And I'm loving music so much I want to be able to engage in such a conversation (both musically and verbally)
One of the things a lot of folks don't realize about 'music theory' is that it's just a language for understanding and describing music, meaning what you hear. From very simple one or two note passages to complex chord structures & progressions to symphonies - they can all be described in terms of music theory.

One really important, foundational (and not the simplest) theory idea we all learned in the 1st grade or so is the do-re-mi major scale. Most people can reproduce it vocally and instrumental beginners can often pick it out very early on their instruments. The sound is music, knowing how to make it and what to call it is theory. Substitue 1,2,3 for do-re-mi and you've got one of the big keys to the kingdom!

Most folks who've been playing for a bit have already acquired a chunk of knowledge in terms of sounds they know - chords, chord changes, minor vs major, 7th; note length, harmony (e.g. vocal or other), etc. That's the music part. The theory is just knowing what all that stuff is called and why.
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  #21  
Old 10-02-2017, 02:33 PM
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I just posted this paragraph in another thread but thought it to be a good question. What are your thoughts on this...

I personally don't like learning music theory. It racks my brain. That said, I do enjoy learning scales yet, I know very few. Mostly movable scales. But what keeps it interesting for me is thinking of half steps and whole steps. By doing, or thinking in these terms it has helped me discover, for example, one string solos. So when I hit a note in a scale I know I can move up or down by either a half or a whole step and the note will work. And sometimes you can squeeze in a note that is off by a half step but still make it work, which sort of creates tension that can be resolved.

I hope this makes sense to you all. Is this method logical, for lack of a better term.??
Hi 3notes

So you are learning theory in a random, and convenient (to you) manner.

I found Music Theory in college (my major was music education) a 4 year dedicated path to learn a lot more than most musicians want to know about music.

The benefit is I can read notes, scores, chord charts, Jazz charts, TAB, Nashville numbering, and figured bass. I can improvise, compose, and know chord theory, scale theory etc. Each is a language that sometimes ties into and overlaps with another.

The result is I can quickly fit into about any ensemble situation, because I probably speak their language (which is what theory brings to the table) and we can make music together more quickly.

If your needs are not that great, then your method is probably fine. If you ever decide to do more than dabble in theory I suggest you take a basic piano course (if you don't already play piano) and then a basic theory class from a community college in your area.

Theory is so much simpler to understand on keyboards than on guitar necks.



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  #22  
Old 10-02-2017, 03:48 PM
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A lot of what is being called "theory" is actually rote memorization. Perhaps thinking of it that way is more realistic and useful when working on such as scale patterns. Theory comes in at a deeper level when you start to consider alternatives in playing something - why, in your opinion, you choose to play in this or that way.
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  #23  
Old 10-02-2017, 05:34 PM
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I agree music theory can rack your brain. I think it is useful though to know some of the basics and I agree that it also depends on what your goals are.

Some good stuff in this post. Just comes down to what you want to achieve and where you want to go. That is the beauty of music, you make it what you want and get out what you need form it.
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  #24  
Old 10-08-2017, 08:46 PM
jeanray1113 jeanray1113 is offline
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I guess I am somethinf a music geek. Now, I'm sure no theory expert, but I have managed to learn quite a bit, and as well as being helpful, I really find it interesting. I am interested in understanding how music works, why some things sound good and some don't, what makes a diminished chord a diminished chord, etc. Just how my brain works.
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  #25  
Old 10-08-2017, 09:04 PM
Howard Klepper Howard Klepper is offline
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We don't need no educaition!
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  #26  
Old 10-09-2017, 08:06 AM
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In my mind there's "practical theory" ... those things we use all the time in performance and composition. Then there's "academic theory" ... the arcane stuff that music pedants have heated discussions about, and use as clubs to hold back those who have only mastered the former.
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  #27  
Old 10-09-2017, 10:02 AM
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In my mind there's "practical theory" ... those things we use all the time in performance and composition. Then there's "academic theory" ... the arcane stuff that music pedants have heated discussions about, and use as clubs to hold back those who have only mastered the former.
Generally true. A number of basic things are every day useful, but they are more about memorizing given system of conventions than anything theoretical.
Thoughtful listening and ear development are primary. Being able to grasp the generalities from the specifics will be faster with concurrent attention paid to
the system of conventions being used (occidental music our case).
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  #28  
Old 10-09-2017, 12:43 PM
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When I was young, I decided to avoid music theory as much as possible. Through the decades I did OK on guitar without the ability to read music, making a living at clubs etc. I'm now retired, and play in a Church band. As the amount of free time increases for me, I find myself more and more fascinated by not just guitar and performance, but by music itself. The result is that
  1. I think I'm going to spend some time learning music theory, and
  2. I really wish I had done so in the early 1970s when this all started.
But it's OK OP - your decision is fine. I wouldn't trade a minute of my time on a fretboard. However, deciding not to learn theory may be a little limiting in the long run, and why limit something that gives you joy? Just my two centavos
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  #29  
Old 10-09-2017, 08:31 PM
jseth jseth is offline
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Just considering the half-steps and whole steps is a great way to train your ears... and it certainly IS theory of a sort... even haphazardly.

After stringently avoiding any theory or harmony for nearly 3 decades, I finally was "baptized" into the Berklee School of Music approach, now some 40 years ago...

One thing: I think a lot of folks "mystify" harmony and theory... it isn't all THAT difficult. After all (as one reply stated), almost all of us already know the do-re-mi sequence (which is a diatonic major scale, by the way...). Using a Roman numeral template expands that do-re-mi to cover EVERY key in Western Music. (... and I'm not a rocket scientist... BUT I AM the son of a rocket scientist!)

You can take it as deep as you want (or need)... but the basic building blocks are that "do-re-mi" stuff...

After finally learning a bunch of advanced harmony and theory - the stuff that jazz brings to the table - I came to realize that learning theory and harmony is very much like learning to speak French, WHEN YOU LIVE IN FRANCE! VERY useful when relating to other musicians and learning/writing songs...

Biggest thing, of course, is that you are happy playing the music you play... that is paramount! Enjoy!
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  #30  
Old 10-09-2017, 09:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Stone View Post
When I was young, I decided to avoid music theory as much as possible. Through the decades I did OK on guitar without the ability to read music, making a living at clubs etc. I'm now retired, and play in a Church band. As the amount of free time increases for me, I find myself more and more fascinated by not just guitar and performance, but by music itself. The result is that
  1. I think I'm going to spend some time learning music theory, and
  2. I really wish I had done so in the early 1970s when this all started.
I had no idea music theory didn't exist before the 1970's....
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