Dreadnaught variations - luthiers' perspectives

[Pippin]

I started a thread asking for members' input on examples of variations on the Dreadnaught theme, and got some interesting replies:

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=464584

Have you encountered / owned any significant variations of the Dreadnaught design? By "significant" I mean not only features such as decorations, 12- versus 14 frets, slot vs. solid head, or a cutaway, but rather some design features that deviate from the original slope or flat shoulder D, that have specific sonic or playability goals in mind.

I can think of examples like:
1) The famous Modified Dreadnaught shape of Somogyi - for modern fingerstyle (so I read)
2) On the same theme the more recent Modified - Modified Dreadnaught by Jason K - a smaller 12 fret version specifically designed for Michael W - the Modified Dreadnaught Watts (MDW)
3) I have also seen thin body Dreadnaught by some factory brands (e.g. Kona, Meridas)- probably aim at electric players; may be also for stage amplification / studio work - minimize feedback / enhance balance? (it seems that deeper body OM are made by quite a few distinguished luthiers but not sure if something similar is happening as to a "shallow D"?)
4) I guess we can also count wood types, and internal structures e.g. bracing patterns of top and back, too? I am not knowledge about these at all...

I am curious how luthiers have worked on the iconic D design, and with what sonic goals in mind (and outcomes)?

Pp

May I ask the same question to builders on the "custom shop" of this Forum?

Here, however, more specifically may I know your goal(s) in modifying the Dreadnaught design to start with and, importantly, did you achieve the results you desire?

I am interested to know because I have always enjoyed the power, responsiveness, and tonality (in a loose sense of the word) of the Dreadnaught but would like to achieve better balance across the frequency range, more clarity and projection (for fingerstyle, not unlike the OM).

Thanks! Pp

[Howard Klepper]

I have been building my SSD (for small slope dread) models for about 5 years. It's the shape of a Gibson such as a J-45 or SJ, reduced to 15" across the lower bout, and with a few other tweaks such as a proportionally slightly smaller waist and depth than a standard dread (but still wide-waisted and deep-bodied). The goal was as you suggested: dreadnaught tonality which comes from the deep body and wide waist, but with a better balance among the registers; strong treble and midrange fundamentals, and a bass that rings more and thumps less than a typical dread's.

I make them in both 12 and 14 frets, with the same body shape but different bracing. I think they have been very successful, although my larger dreads have a lot of the same kind of balance. You can see an SSD under construction currently in this Custom Shop forum.

[Pippin]

Originally Posted by Howard Klepper

I have been building my SSD (for small slope dread) models for about 5 years. It's the shape of a Gibson such as a J-45 or SJ, reduced to 15" across the lower bout, and with a few other tweaks such as a proportionally slightly smaller waist and depth than a standard dread (but still wide-waisted and deep-bodied). The goal was as you suggested: dreadnaught tonality which comes from the deep body and wide waist, but with a better balance among the registers; strong treble and midrange fundamentals, and a bass that rings more and thumps less than a typical dread's.

I make them in both 12 and 14 frets, with the same body shape but different bracing. I think they have been very successful, although my larger dreads have a lot of the same kind of balance. You can see an SSD under construction currently in this Custom Shop forum.

Thanks so much Howard! Exciting to "hear" that the idea really works!

I believe this is the thread:

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=459073

[DamianL]

I love small Dreads...

I am happy that more builders seem to be making them...

I love the look of John Slobod's Circa 7/8th Dread...





As I get older, my shoulder is leas and less interested in going over that big bottom bout, so any smaller dreads get thumbs up from me.

D

[Bruce Sexauer]

I have now built a dozen or so of what I call a mini-dread, about the same number as I have built of actual dreads. The mini-D is 15" wide instead of 15 5/8 and proportionately less deep as well, though still deeper than a 000. It will fit in a 000 case however, which is handy. The tonal envelope is reminiscent of a full D, but the balance is superior, typically, and ergonomics vastly superior. Like most of my guitars, the bass is no issue at all, and compared to a D the treble tends to be enhanced somewhat. My average mini-D is one of my most successful guitar sizes IMO.

[SJ VanSandt]

Mario Proulx makes, or has made, a OM/D guitar that may be a step further than Howard's or Bruce's in terms of departing from dread proportions.



http://www.proulxguitars.com/omd.htm

He claims that it retains the volume and punch of a dreadnought in a more comfortable package. Good luck finding one to try, though!

[N K Forster]

Here is mine:




Nigel

http://www.nkforsterguitars.com/blog...fied-d-guitar/

Originally Posted by SJ VanSandt

Mario Proulx makes, or has made, a OM/D guitar that may be a step further than Howard's or Bruce's in terms of departing from dread proportions.

http://www.proulxguitars.com/images/omd/IMG_1367.jpg

http://www.proulxguitars.com/omd.htm

He claims that it retains the volume and punch of a dreadnought in a more comfortable package. Good luck finding one to try, though!

Based on my somewhat limited experience, he is correct. In fact, I own the very guitar in those photos. It's partly what made me choose the Klepper SSD that Howard is building for me now. Before the Proulx experience I probably would have gone with one of Howard's Dreadnoughts.

If you want to try it, call me the next time you're in Kentucky.

[Pippin]

Thank you everyone for your input! really appreciate!

Originally Posted by Bruce Sexauer

I have now built a dozen or so of what I call a mini-dread, about the same number as I have built of actual dreads. The mini-D is 15" wide instead of 15 5/8 and proportionately less deep as well, though still deeper than a 000. It will fit in a 000 case however, which is handy. The tonal envelope is reminiscent of a full D, but the balance is superior, typically, and ergonomics vastly superior. Like most of my guitars, the bass is no issue at all, and compared to a D the treble tends to be enhanced somewhat. My average mini-D is one of my most successful guitar sizes IMO.

Bruce, the clarity and projection of your guitars are phenomenal. The mini D is (on your sound clip) indeed has a very balanced, round and "cosy" sound.

Originally Posted by Todd Yates

Based on my somewhat limited experience, he is correct. In fact, I own the very guitar in those photos. It's partly what made me choose the Klepper SSD that Howard is building for me now. Before the Proulx experience I probably would have gone with one of Howard's Dreadnoughts.

If you want to try it, call me the next time you're in Kentucky.

Thanks Todd! will let you know when I will be there! Meanwhile eagerly awaiting your NGD post on the Klepper SSD!

So it seems that modifications on the Dreadnaught design are ("usually") meant to achieve:
1) Better ergonomics and playing comfort (by thinning the body and/or pinching/ forwarding the waist; or by reducing the overall dimension but retaining the proportion)
2) Better sonic balance for with less overpowering bass

Successes of your modifications suggest to me that the magic of the dreadnaught design resides probably not so much in the absolute air volume of the body, but rather more in the overall shape and proportion (broader waist with a deeper body, as Howard has pointed out). I suddenly remember Michael (Watts) used to say that the slope shoulder design adds a certain 'sweetness' to the sound...

I wonder if anyone has gone the other direction and make a "jumbo" Dreadnaught?

Pp

[Pippin]

Originally Posted by N K Forster

Here is mine:




Nigel

http://www.nkforsterguitars.com/blog...fied-d-guitar/

Thanks Nigel!

Since this modified D is somewhat based on your Model S and I presume the body thickness is more like the OOO/OM?
If so, how does the shallower body works with the broader D "footprint"?

Pp

[jessupe]

probably not up your alley, but it is a variation on a "standard" dred

My guitars are hand carved arches , both fronts and backs, but use a shaped "flat top" bridge

[N K Forster]

Originally Posted by Pippin

Thanks Nigel!

Since this modified D is somewhat based on your Model S and I presume the body thickness is more like the OOO/OM?
If so, how does the shallower body works with the broader D "footprint"?

Pp

Yes, it's about 10cm deep at the tail. I can't really compare it to anything other than my own work I'm afraid. And it sounds nothing like a Martin. But it does sound like a much softer version of the Model S. Soft but very strong. Rather like a well known brand of loo roll!

I plan to make a video with it in the next few weeks. Then you can hear yourself.

Nigel

www.nkforsterguitars.com

[N K Forster]

Here is a better shot!



Nigel
www.nkforsterguitars.com

[Pippin]

Originally Posted by jessupe

probably not up your alley, but it is a variation on a "standard" dred

My guitars are hand carved arches , both fronts and backs, but use a shaped "flat top" bridge

Thanks!
I have always been intrigued by the effects of incorporating a more pronounce arch/curve on the top/back in a traditional flattop design like OM, D etc. I believe Stefen Sobell has done it with much success, and his guitars sound very crisp and articulate. Is that your experience, too?

BTW the "violin type" (excuse me for the lack of a more professional designation for it) of body binding / purfling on your guitar looks very distinctive and elegant!

Pp

[ataylor]

Originally Posted by SJ VanSandt

Mario Proulx makes, or has made, a OM/D guitar that may be a step further than Howard's or Bruce's in terms of departing from dread proportions.



http://www.proulxguitars.com/omd.htm

He claims that it retains the volume and punch of a dreadnought in a more comfortable package. Good luck finding one to try, though!

I really like the proportions of that guitar. Combined with the simple appointments, it looks like something I'd very much enjoy. Thanks for sharing!