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  #16  
Old 03-24-2017, 10:24 PM
huckster huckster is offline
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No doubt the mains behind you can create feedback issues. There are ways to beat feedback and still use condenser mics on stage for acoustic strings. We use AKG 1000C for Dobro and Fiddle and Audio Technica 4033 for vocals. The key is running through a feedback eliminator. We used a Berhinger Feedback Destroyer. Best $100. equipment investment I ever made. This thing ELIMINATES feedback when setup right. They have several options for setup and parametric EQ. I am not connected to the company but I recommend this unit. It doesn't take out a curve of the sound like so many others do. Instead it notches out the offensive freq. Very helpful unit. thanks, huckster
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  #17  
Old 03-25-2017, 12:26 AM
gfa gfa is offline
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"I generally spend 3 nights a week banging out songs in the bars. So I'm grateful for the chance, especially during the summer months, to perform with my wife and kids. "

Good perspective!

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  #18  
Old 03-25-2017, 02:17 AM
Hurricane Ramon Hurricane Ramon is offline
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Cool Feed Back



Quote:
Originally Posted by huckster View Post
We used a Berhinger Feedback Destroyer. Best $100. equipment investment I ever made. This thing ELIMINATES feedback when setup right. They have several options for setup and parametric EQ.




I have a dual channel Berhinger DSP1124P I got usd for $60.00 , it looks absolutely new ,
so far I have not yet needed to use it because the small P.A. I have has feed back suppression and
I haven't used the bigger system since I got the little one that is really quite loud an clear .

Today however I hooked up a new processor to the P.A. while rehearsing and got some feed back
because the FX on this new T.C. Helicon Vocal Live 3 X are a different breed .

I'll be pulling it out for shows now I'm sure , I have a resonator and ukulele that have no electronics
and will be mic'd with a Shure SM57 .

I'm ready

EZ

HR

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  #19  
Old 03-25-2017, 02:21 AM
Silly Moustache Silly Moustache is offline
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Getting back to the OP's question about a condener mic rather than alternatives, I use a single Rode NT1 mic for my music club - i.e. everyone , solo, duet, or trio use that mic. For all my trio's gigs we use the same mic.

Every time I use it , people say how clear and clean the sound it.

In my experience, condensers (which must have phantom power from the mixer) can take less gain than dynamics, but give a greater output.

Large condenser - larger catchment area. Requires some "choreography" , and also needs some care about placement relative to speakers.

No good for rowdy pub/bar gigs - if no-one's litening - why bother with quality? For listening audiences - great.

The challenge for this family band might be height of players !
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  #20  
Old 03-25-2017, 03:06 PM
Hurricane Ramon Hurricane Ramon is offline
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Thumbs up On Condensor Mics



The inexpensive Samson C01 has a cardiod pattern is not shabby with quality components :
  • Cardioid pickup pattern
  • Large, dual-layer 19mm diaphragm
  • Heavy gauge mesh grill
  • Gold-plated XLR connector
  • LED indicates 48V phantom power
  • Smooth, flat frequency response
  • Swivel stand mount
  • Optional SP01 Spider Shockmount

Under $100.00 I got mine years ago it's quite a clean sounding mic over all .

The spider shockmount wore out recently after years of service . Samson is sending
me a replacement free of charge . That is cool - so cool I am getting the C03 with the
multiple patterns .


You can't beat the price for the quality with these mics as far as I have experienced . http://www.samsontech.com/samson/pro...crophones/c01/

EZ :

HR

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  #21  
Old 03-28-2017, 10:29 AM
J Patrick J Patrick is offline
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..what i have done in the past with single condenser mic performances is to place one speaker out front and use one as a side fill monitor.....i also like to use a tube mic preamp on the mic to fatten it up...for outdoor events like farmers markets it might work very well...
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  #22  
Old 04-01-2017, 07:43 AM
varmonter varmonter is offline
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Outdoor gigs are different it all comes down
To speaker placement and how much volume
You want. Obviously if the speakers are behind you
Then you wont get as much output before feedback
As you will if they are up front.try to position
The mic as far away from the speaker as possible
And put one of the family members between
The sp and the mic...careful when they move..
I use an AT40/40 as a single mic setup.
It works well.the furthur the speakers are
Away from the mic the louder you can turn it
Up.
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  #23  
Old 05-28-2017, 01:34 PM
mikemo6string mikemo6string is offline
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Hello again, folks,

I've decided to go back to a mains/monitor approach, and try a condenser microphone for both girls. It will have to pick up fiddle/vocal (for both of them). I'd like to use one mic, bluegrass style, for lack of a better phrase.

I'll attach a photo of The Morris Family Band below. What I'm looking for is a recommendation for microphones to try. And though I'd like to try an AKG 414, I'm not willing to spend that kind of dough. I don't mind spending 300 bucks or so, but not 600. You probably get the idea. I did look at the AT 4040 mentioned above, which looks decent to me. Also the Samson and Rode NT1. I can't try 'em all (well, I guess I could), so I'm wondering what the differences may be.


Last edited by mikemo6string; 05-28-2017 at 01:43 PM. Reason: additional information, more info
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  #24  
Old 05-28-2017, 02:13 PM
Wyllys Wyllys is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikemo6string View Post
Hello again, folks,

I've decided to go back to a mains/monitor approach, and try a condenser microphone for both girls. It will have to pick up fiddle/vocal (for both of them). I'd like to use one mic, bluegrass style, for lack of a better phrase.

I'll attach a photo of The Morris Family Band below. What I'm looking for is a recommendation for microphones to try. And though I'd like to try an AKG 414, I'm not willing to spend that kind of dough. I don't mind spending 300 bucks or so, but not 600. You probably get the idea. I did look at the AT 4040 mentioned above, which looks decent to me. Also the Samson and Rode NT1. I can't try 'em all (well, I guess I could), so I'm wondering what the differences may be.

Thanks for the pic. That helps.

Here's my take on the realities involved:

1. Quarter- and half-sized fiddles do not project well meaning that according to the principle of "loudest sound at the mic wins", the amplified sound returning from your speakers will very likely limit your GBF (gain before feedback) so severely as to be nearly unworkable with stand mounted mics.

2. See #1 again.

To have ANY chance at all, you need your speakers IN FRONT of the mics. I'd even suggest using a single speaker.

Good luck.
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  #25  
Old 05-28-2017, 02:53 PM
mikemo6string mikemo6string is offline
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The intention is, indeed, to get the speakers in front of the mics.

I've circled around through the Bose/Fishman "line arrays" over the years, and am going back to a monitor pointed back at me/us, and mains that are in front of us.

Almost all the family band performances are at farmers' markets. We'll take a Schertler or Fishman amp, and use that as our monitor. A small mixer for the girls and my wife's fiddle or mandolin, line out to the amp. Then we take the signal out of the amp to the QSC speaker. In the photo, it's in back of us, but we're not using that approach anymore. Speakers to the side/front.

You also don't see any of my gear in the photo. I run my vocal/guitar into a pedal board, through a looper, and to a separate amp, also out the the speaker. That's how I do my solo gigs, the majority of my work.

And sometimes, when it gets too involved, we just walk around the market, sing and play our songs... no amplification at all.

Last edited by mikemo6string; 05-28-2017 at 03:28 PM. Reason: more information
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  #26  
Old 05-28-2017, 04:13 PM
pipedwho pipedwho is offline
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You want a mic with a cardioid pattern. It won't make much difference if it's a dynamic or condenser.

I've used a couple of Sennheiser e935 vocal dynamic mics for full choir pickup when I didn't have my usual condenser choir mics, and they sounded just as good through the FOH. And probably had a bit better GBF as they are very smooth with good extension into the high frequencies. They're not like the Shure SM58 that seems to emphasise the mids at the expense of 'air'.

I use pencil condensers simply because they are smaller and don't overbalance when the mic stands are extended to maximum height. For live use, there's no real advantage to an LDC like the Rode NT1, unless you're going for the look. You'll end up rolling off the low end to avoid feedback anyway, and that's where the LDCs come into their own.

My goto pencil condensers are the Rode M5 set. They replaced a couple of Sennheiser e914s that I used to use. The M5s are nice and small, and have a nice even pattern without any 'spikey' lobes that cause GBF problems.

That being said, you'll need to keep the FOH and monitors a decent distance away if you want the little girls to be heard. Otherwise, you'll be constantly fighting feedback. I always have trouble keeping small 8 person choirs standing in the right spot to keep things even, there's always a couple of people that move around affecting the vocal balance.
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  #27  
Old 05-28-2017, 04:24 PM
martingitdave martingitdave is offline
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Cute family Mike! Mine are about 3 years older than yours. They both take music lessons but have no interest in performing. Yet. God bless!


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  #28  
Old 05-28-2017, 05:01 PM
GmanJeff GmanJeff is offline
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Use pickups on all the instruments, and things will be a lot easier to manage, but you still have to avoid directing FOH and monitor sound into the vocal mics if you want to avoid feedback.
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Last edited by GmanJeff; 05-28-2017 at 05:59 PM.
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  #29  
Old 05-28-2017, 06:00 PM
takatsukimike takatsukimike is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikemo6string View Post
Hello again, folks,

I've decided to go back to a mains/monitor approach, and try a condenser microphone for both girls. It will have to pick up fiddle/vocal (for both of them). I'd like to use one mic, bluegrass style, for lack of a better phrase.

I'll attach a photo of The Morris Family Band below. What I'm looking for is a recommendation for microphones to try. And though I'd like to try an AKG 414, I'm not willing to spend that kind of dough. I don't mind spending 300 bucks or so, but not 600. You probably get the idea. I did look at the AT 4040 mentioned above, which looks decent to me. Also the Samson and Rode NT1. I can't try 'em all (well, I guess I could), so I'm wondering what the differences may be.

At least you have the kids mics pointing downwards. It's probably the one thing that's saved you from feedback issues in the past. I second the opinions of those who say a clip-on microphone for the violin would be ideal because it's bringing the mic closer to the source. However I don't know whether you have enough channels on the mixer to do this and keep the 2 kids vocal mics.

If you are still keen on keeping the same setup and upgrading their mics to condensers, try and find something with a hypercardiod pattern.
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  #30  
Old 05-29-2017, 04:34 AM
Marty C Marty C is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikemo6string View Post
Hello again, folks,

I've decided to go back to a mains/monitor approach, and try a condenser microphone for both girls. It will have to pick up fiddle/vocal (for both of them). I'd like to use one mic, bluegrass style, for lack of a better phrase.

I'll attach a photo of The Morris Family Band below. What I'm looking for is a recommendation for microphones to try. And though I'd like to try an AKG 414, I'm not willing to spend that kind of dough. I don't mind spending 300 bucks or so, but not 600. You probably get the idea. I did look at the AT 4040 mentioned above, which looks decent to me. Also the Samson and Rode NT1. I can't try 'em all (well, I guess I could), so I'm wondering what the differences may be.

I have no technical input of value, but I love what you do with your family. That's about as close as it gets to heaven when combining your passion with your family and all sharing it together.
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