The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Custom Shop

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #16  
Old 03-26-2017, 07:13 AM
Kerbie Kerbie is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 28,635
Default

So much depends on the builder and the back-and-sides wood. In the right scenario, all of them can make fantastic guitars. I tend to lean toward European/German. I think it is a sweet, rich sound that very much appeals to me. It can handle a flat pick or fingerstyle with equal ease. I've owned three of them and they pair with EIR or Mahogany very well.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 03-26-2017, 07:23 AM
martingitdave martingitdave is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Chicago
Posts: 11,282
Default

My favorite is Red, followed by Carpathian, and then Sitka. Sitka is fine for everything except the loudest bluegrass played purely acoustically, then you need Red. Carpathian had a lovely tone for singer songwriter material or finger style.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
__________________
"Lift your head and smile at trouble. You'll find happiness someday."
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 03-26-2017, 07:34 AM
iim7V7IM7's Avatar
iim7V7IM7 iim7V7IM7 is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: An Exit Off the Turnpike in New Jersey
Posts: 5,152
Default My $.02

ALL spruces have the potential of being GREAT depending on whether:

- Someone skilled in the art of lutherie selected it for a specific project
- The goals of the player are understood by the builder
- The builder understands how to manipulate the top within their "system"

When these factors are not involved, greatness is absolutely possible but it becomes stochastic.

In general, there is way too much focus on inherent magic properties assigned on average to specific species or regional terroir of a specific species or even a specific log, when reality there is much overlap. There is also way too much fucus on top aesthetics instead of top acoustics. I have had the pleasure of selecting top for guitars with a number of builders. There are profound differences in weight, cross-grain stiffness and tap tone in sets even within a single species. In a number of cases, we chose aesthetically less perfect sets because mechanical and acoustic properties won the day.

I have sucessful guitars in Engelmann Spruce, a variety of Norwegian Spruces (Carpathian, German and Italian) and Red Spruce.
__________________
A bunch of nice archtops, flattops, a gypsy & nylon strings…
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 03-26-2017, 08:00 AM
CoolerKing's Avatar
CoolerKing CoolerKing is offline
FKA matthewpartrick :)
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: North Havana
Posts: 5,344
Default

I lean towards Euro Spruce because it supports my own personal bias. All totally based on looks and I bought into what might have been hype about "all the properties of Red with the good looks of Lutz" etc, and the Euro on the market currently has a high potential for good looks. I don't think I could hear the difference between types of spruce if I was blinded.

Edited to say hardly any of the guitars listed in my sig are Euro!

Out of the ones I commissioned, the Meridian has a Colorado Blue Spruce, so whatever that's related to I have no idea. I suppose Sitka/Lutz/Englemann. But, I chose that one b/c Mike is basically the only luthier that offers it and it looked way cool and I had already played one of his CBS guitars in the past which was very successful.

The impending LeGeyt parlour will have Red Spruce, and I deferred to Burton on that based on my other LeGeyt having the same and the quality of Red Spruce he has is very high. I am a little concerned that such a small body with Red Spruce will take forever to break in, but I'm in no hurry.

The Saturno has Italian Spruce, from the Fiemme Valley (link below discussing spruce on Cremonese violins)
http://www.npr.org/sections/deceptiv...-trees-live-on

The Circa will have some form of European Spruce.

I have four (!) other acoustics in the house not listed.

The two I built both have Carpathian Spruce, which I bought because I've been very pleased with them so far. One I built about ten years ago, and has aged very nicely. The other is about four years old, and I don't play as much but sounds and looks good.

Two modern Martins both ostensibly owned by my children, as they're registered to them. I take them out of the case every now and then to give them the spa treatment, but they're basically set aside for them if they want them. The 000-28ECM has Carpathian and I really like that guitar. Not too crazy about the aging toner but whatever. The OM-28 Authentic has torreified Red Spruce, and I also like that guitar quite a bit.

I could probably tell the difference between all my guitars if I was blinded and playing them myself, but that's probably more about feel. With someone else playing, the only guitars I could nail with any certainty are the old Martin, the archtop and the Meridian. Perhaps I'll set up a test with one of my friends and get back to you with the results.

Last edited by CoolerKing; 03-26-2017 at 08:18 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 03-26-2017, 08:16 AM
lizzard lizzard is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Woodstock, Illinois
Posts: 1,419
Default

Okay, I guess I'll elaborate and generalize...
I like softer spruce with denser tone woods e.g. Engelmann over coco or stiffer tops over softer tone woods e.g. Sitka over walnut.

Just my opinion. My style and ear are mine, you should take your style and ear to as many shops or builders or shows as you can and draw the conclusions that make you happy, there is no right answer. But for me - so far- it's Engelmann.
__________________
The Electrics check

The Acoustics

Tom Doerr - Trinity. Flamed Maple under Swiss
Tom Doerr - M/D. Braz under Red
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 03-26-2017, 11:04 AM
Guitars44me's Avatar
Guitars44me Guitars44me is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Mountains east of San Diego
Posts: 7,370
Smile Mr Hatcher is correct!

I agree with Mr. Hatcher, and Fitness! Too many variables...

I have played the famous Taylor forklift guitar. Pallet oak back and sides and a fir 2X4 top! Sounded very nice indeed. Not as good as most from the Custom Shop here on AGF or even Taylor's CS, but darn good.

The builder and the woods need to come together to make the best guitars. And tone should outweigh looks for instruments that will be played!

My two cents...

Cheers

Paul
__________________
3 John Kinnaird SS 12c CUSTOMS:
Big Maple/Cedar Dread
Jumbo Spanish Cedar/WRC
Jumbo OLD Brazilian RW/WRC

R.T 2 12c sinker RW/Claro
96 422ce bought new!
96 LKSM 12
552ce 12x12

J. Stepick Bari Weissy WRC/Walnut

More
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 03-26-2017, 02:58 PM
SJ VanSandt SJ VanSandt is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Posts: 2,124
Default

I wish more luthiers would chip in on this thread. I've heard some personally express a preference for Euro or Lutz or Red (all else being equal, which of course it never is), and I think I've read some express a dislike of Sitka here on AGF. It's not a poll and it wouldn't be scientific anyway, but it would be interesting to know. Inquiring minds . . .
__________________
Hatcher Woodsman, Collings 0002H, Stella Grand Concert
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 03-27-2017, 07:04 AM
redir redir is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Mountains of Virginia
Posts: 7,657
Default

I think the dislike for Sitka is because it's the most common top wood used on factory guitars that sell as 'hand made' and 'solid top' and as such they are not the greatest sounding guitars in the world so it might be better to stick with the more traditional species of spruces, just in case. But IMHO it makes a fine sounding guitar. I've even [gasp!] built a classical guitar with it.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 03-27-2017, 11:25 AM
MikeD's Avatar
MikeD MikeD is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: New England
Posts: 2,220
Default

My first choice (mostly by prewar default) is always Adirondack, followed by German (the real stuff that was cut decades ago that some builders have a stash of) and then some of the other high altitude Euro spruces (like the Swiss stuff Willi and Rudy use).
__________________
We can share the woman, we can share the wine...
_____________________
Suggestions 1:1
Slackers 1:51-52
FSM
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 03-31-2017, 12:17 AM
usb_chord's Avatar
usb_chord usb_chord is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,627
Default

Probably Euro, followed very closely by Adirondack.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 03-31-2017, 12:47 AM
SiliconValleySJ SiliconValleySJ is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Valley of Silicon
Posts: 442
Default

My general liking has been: Engelmann, European, Sitka, Adi--in that order. However, I've found examples of each that shined, so don't want to over-generalize.
__________________
1998 Langejans BRGC Engelmann Spruce / Brazilian RW
2017 Heinonen "Olson" SJ Western Red Cedar / Honduran RW - Build

Last edited by SiliconValleySJ; 03-31-2017 at 09:39 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 03-31-2017, 03:12 AM
Marcus Wong Marcus Wong is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Singapore
Posts: 1,649
Default

Funny that no one has mentioned Swiss Moon Spruce yet
__________________
.
THE GOLDEN ERA GUITAR
FOR SALE | VIDEOS

AUTHORISED DEALER OF:
Astrand | Bowerman | Brondel | Buendia | Casimi | Datlen | Doerr | Fujii | Gerber | GR Bear | Heinonen | Isaac Jang
Keith | Keystone | Matsuda | Michaud Made | Ogino | Pellerin | Petros | Poljakoff | Strahm | Tom Sands | Wingert

...and more

www.TheGoldenEraGuitar.com
[email protected]
+65 8666 0420
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 03-31-2017, 07:04 AM
Tim McKnight's Avatar
Tim McKnight Tim McKnight is offline
AGF Sponsor
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Morral, Ohio
Posts: 5,929
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by matthewpartrick View Post
Colorado Blue Spruce, Mike is basically the only luthier that offers it
Just a quick correction Matthew ... There are two other builders that I am aware of, both on this forum, who offer it, the builder who harvested the wood when he lived in CO and myself, who managed to coax a few sets from his stash IME I believe it to be very similar to Picea engelmannii but I have no scientific evidence to back up that hunch.

My favorite tops are similar to Mark's specs; I look for tops that have the highest stiffness to lowest weight ratio, regardless of species, prominent cross grain silking, zero run out, split or cut as near to 90* as possible, wider but consistent grain across the face and finally it has to have excellent musical potential in its tap tone.

My personal favorites to build with, in no particular order are:
Red Spruce
Carpathian Spruce
1959 Sitka Spruce
Lutz Spruce

Choosing a top, IMO, is one of the most critical factors, when designing a guitar for an individual player. As others have mentioned the back and sides should be considered but more importantly I have to consider the player's string attack and the tonal target which they are hearing in their head. Accurate communication between us is key to hitting this goal.
__________________
tim...
www.mcknightguitars.com
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 03-31-2017, 07:20 AM
fitness1's Avatar
fitness1 fitness1 is offline
Musical minimalist
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Central Lower Michigan
Posts: 22,130
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim McKnight View Post

My personal favorites to build with, in no particular order are:

1959 Sitka Spruce
I can vouch for that!
__________________
"One small heart, and a great big soul that's driving"

Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 03-31-2017, 07:50 AM
Rico59 Rico59 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 48
Default

It's the builder, not the wood.
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Custom Shop

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:24 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=