#46
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If that's not the sound that you're trying to reproduce exactly, then a whole world of design possibilities opens up. There are literally millions of great guitars that were not built in that fashion. But if that is the sound that you're trying to reproduce exactly, then there's plenty of evidence to show that small movements away from the original design can add up to a big difference in sound. As a player I often find the "magic" in all sorts of guitars without adjustable trussrods. While I can't directly correlate that magic to the absence of the adjustable feature, it has led me to question how much I really need that feature. And after exploring that, I find that the advantages of an adjustable truss rod are often misunderstood and overstated. And accordingly, the tradeoffs that come with an adjustable truss rod are often misunderstood, and may well be understated.
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1943 Gibson J-45 Martin Custom Shop 000-28 Authentic Aged 1937 Voyage Air VAOM-4 |
#47
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Almost all necks flex a little under string tension, and those necks need an adjustable truss rod.
It is possible to build the neck stiff enough that there is no measureable flex from string tension, either with steel or carbon fiber reinforcement. The relief would have to be built into the fretboard/frets, and would not change with changes in string gauges. I've been thinking of building one like this, but all my builds so far have had double action truss rods.
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Rodger Knox, PE 1917 Martin 0-28 1956 Gibson J-50 et al |
#48
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Due to my ignorance of guitar structure I bought some that really needed planing and refretting or had to have bridges filed down to compensate. I bought the guitars that people were getting rid of because they had problems. My last Martin six string was a '74 D35-S. I had to have the neck reset but sadly the luthier didn't replace the filed down bridge. Lovely old guitar but not at its peak when I got it or even when I sold it. New owner adores it however. A friend bought an HD28 and asked me if it was OK. No.l Neck like a banana. Another frind custom ordered a fancy 0004x something or other it arrived needing a neck reset and the fretboard straightened out. I quite understand why Martin did not fit adj. truss rods in the Authentics but I decided that they aren't for me - mainly for this reason.
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Silly Moustache, Just an old Limey acoustic guitarist, Dobrolist, mandolier and singer. I'm here to try to help and advise and I offer one to one lessons/meetings/mentoring via Zoom! |
#49
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(Sorry, late to the feast...) |
#50
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#51
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Phil Playing guitar badly since 1964. Some Taylor guitars. Three Kala ukuleles (one on tour with the Box Tops). A 1937 A-style mandolin. |
#52
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A good fixed reinforcement neck gets the major part of its stiffness from the reinforcement, and the reinforcement is not affected by humidity and will not cold creep. This results in a neck that is not significantly affected by humidity or minor changes in string tension. Martin in the 1960's went to a less stiff, lighter gauge T bar, and then went to the square tube that is also less stiff than the earlier T bar. These necks relied more on the wood and less on the reinforcement for their stiffness, and hence were subject to issues caused by humidity change, string tension change, and cold creep. Martin's eventual solution was to go to adjustable rods, until the Authentics recreated the original T bars. While the majority of my guitars use an adjustable steel rod for reinforcement, for my fixed reinforcement necks I use a system of three carbon fiber rods. I have had no problems with their stability.
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"Still a man hears what he wants to hear, and disregards the rest." --Paul Simon Last edited by Howard Klepper; 10-21-2015 at 02:21 PM. |
#53
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Are you saying the truss rod has nothing to do with neck resets . . . wow, I wonder why I hadn't noticed that before . . . ?
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NOT from Queen - he's much cleverer I am English, so are all my spellings Two guitars I'm happy with . . . |
#54
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I would add that if you have two different woods in the neck (i.e. pretty much everything except Fender all maple bolt ons) the neck will be susceptible to climatic changes and ageing (possibly part of the reason for old Martins needing neck resets). Two different pieces of wood of different species will always age/change differently and will affect the profile of the neck. I'd accept it's possible for a builder (luthier or factory) to build a large percentage of their necks to be stable but there must always be some that are not over time (I don't believe in precognition). For me the trade off of playability means I prefer a truss rod, I simply don't get on with baseball bat necks. The other point is that there are so many things that affect acoustic guitar tone tone that the difference between a solid reinforced neck and a truss rod must be relatively small IMHO (and I accept my knowledge in this area is only moderate so I may be wrong).
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Brian Eastwood Custom Acoustic (1981) Rob Aylward 'Petit Bouche' Selmer Style (2010) Emerald X7 OS Artisan (2014) Mountain D45 (mid '80s) Brian Eastwood ES175/L5 Gibson Les Paul Custom (1975) Brian Eastwood '61 Strat Bitsa Strat with P90s (my main electric) The Loar F5 Mandolin, Samick A4 Mandolin Epiphone Mandobird Brian Eastwood '51 P Bass NS Design Wav EUB Giordano EUB |
#55
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The neck design has nothing to do with a neck reset. Again, The neck design has nothing to do with a neck reset. And, now in three-part harmony, The neck design has nothing to do with a neck reset. Got it? Good. |
#56
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Obviously you have not played many of them or you'd know better. Some are, some are not. |
#57
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hunter |
#58
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Andy, thanks for answering back. If your main experience has been with 1970's square tube Martins, I can understand the hesitation. The 3/8" square tubes combined with PVA glue used to join the fretboard are among the most likely to develop excess relief. Not all do, but they are not nearly as robust as the earlier T-bar. My dad and I have 5 between us, and 4 of the 5 required compression fretting to fix the excess relief. One was near 0.025" relief before the work, and about 0.006" now - many years after the repair. So, even the worst of them are correctable and stable after that work.
My non-adjustable Martin necks vary less than 0.003" through any season. I couldn't ask for better stability than that. |
#59
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Late to be joining in, but a point or two about low actions and neck relief ..
There is a "correct" amount of neck relief - it's the centre of an acceptable small range of neck relief, but I find that the "best" relief can vary from player to player - if they like a low action, where they want the least buzz. I've even found the odd guitar that seems to behave better either dead straight or with more relief than I'd have expected. (I'm looking back over hundreds of set-ups). Many guitars are on their way to needing a neck reset but are not really there yet. The "acceptable range" of relief I referred to can provide some indirect and temporary benefit for the owner - in the same camp as lowering the saddle further than ideal to get you by. The number of players who believe their guitars which have never been tampered with are still spot on support that "acceptable range" may be a lot bigger than I would claim. |
#60
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Personally, I wouldn't entertain the idea of buying a steel-string guitar without an adjustable truss rod. It's a feature that helps provide a cheap way of countering climate, seasonal, and age effects on a guitar, to say nothing of those induced by varying string tensions. I have bought one or two classical guitars without one, and I might again for something special, but even on classical/nylon strings, I much prefer the added security of an adjustable rod.
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