Martin 000-42 finish defect/peeling

[roylor4]

Originally Posted by Ted @ LA Guitar Sales

In that case the problem isn't the finish, the wood under the finish, or how the finish was applied. It would appear something attacked the finish everywhere except where the pickguard was protecting it. If it didn't happen while in your care, than it either happened while the guitar was with the dealer, or in transit.

In any case, Martin is certainly not responsible, and they would be wise to stay clear of this mess. Good news is getting the guitar refinished locally should not be a problem, and hopefully your dealer/importer will help with the cost.

As someone that has done a lot of finishing and spray painting this makes sense. It sounds like the finish was exposed to fumes or a chemical that it interacted badly with.

I had an early, low budget Eastman that had the same tacky/sticky feel and got rid of it pronto.

Sorry about your problems and hope you can get a satisfactory, if not ideal, solution.

[dcmey]

Originally Posted by rct

I've bought, sold, traded, gigged to death, retired a lot of guitars in my short 56 years, but none, not a one, not ever did anything like what this thread describes, nor has one, not ever, in the hands of any of the huge amount of guitar players I've interacted with over the course of that life. To just dismiss it as not Martins problem and easily refinished is just astounding to me. For 000-42 money! This isn't a junky tele that you throw down steps, it's 000-42! Holy crap what that says about the maker and the sellers is just awful!

rct

The OP is not in the USA. He stated that the finish had some issues but underneath the pickguard it was intact. Which means that it was finished right at the factory and that the problem wasn't with Martin. The finish obviously had a reaction with something while in distribution or in storage. If it had come over on a boat instead being shipped in the air the humidity and salt from the ocean it could have caused that kind of reaction with the finish. Explain to me how that is Martin's fault. The seller and distributer should share in the expenses of a refinish. Another point that I want to make is you don't put tape on your guitar and then get upset when it peels off. The OP also is partially responsible and should have the problem ASAP without doing anything to the guitar.

[rct]

Originally Posted by dcmey

The OP is not in the USA. He stated that the finish had some issues but underneath the pickguard it was intact. Which means that it was finished right at the factory and that the problem wasn't with Martin. The finish obviously had a reaction with something while in distribution or in storage. If it had come over on a boat instead being shipped in the air the humidity and salt from the ocean it could have caused that kind of reaction with the finish. Explain to me how that is Martin's fault. The seller and distributer should share in the expenses of a refinish. Another point that I want to make is you don't put tape on your guitar and then get upset when it peels off. The OP also is partially responsible and should have the problem ASAP without doing anything to the guitar.

The company sells that guitar, and I expect that if they sell it to me in NJ or you in Eastern Jabip that it arrives in the proper condition to both locations.
The guy should plain and simple get his money back and CFM and the shippers, distributors, and overseas retailers should get together and try to make sure this crap doesn't happen again, not send him off for a re-fin somewhere, that's just ridiculous.

rct

[Ed-in-Ohio]

It's funny how one thread on an internet forum can have a substantial impact on a potential high-end customer.

Standing by your product when it's not contractually required definitely has a cost...So does not standing by it.

[massimo]

Originally Posted by rct

The company sells that guitar, and I expect that if they sell it to me in NJ or you in Eastern Jabip that it arrives in the proper condition to both locations.
The guy should plain and simple get his money back and CFM and the shippers, distributors, and overseas retailers should get together and try to make sure this crap doesn't happen again, not send him off for a re-fin somewhere, that's just ridiculous.

rct

+1

Massimo

[Mr. Paul]

This has been an interesting back and forth on this mystery. I find it a bit curious that the request for photos was never addressed by the OP.


Paul

[catfish]

Originally Posted by tomiv9

I don't know that i necessarily agree that once it leaves the factory it's no longer Martin's responsibility. Isn't Martin responsible for getting the guitar to the dealer?

While I agree that the buyer shall not bear the risks and financial consequences of damage, Martin responsibility depends on the contractual clauses between Martin and the distributor in Australia. The contract shall indicate the time point when Martin's responsibility for such damage passes to a third party. I assume that Martin is clear of responsibility in this case (unless this guitar was under consignement and the ownership rights to this guitar stayed with Martin).

[Silly Moustache]

I had a similar problem with a custom built Huss & Dalton, (plus far more problems). I got the same sort of dismissive "after sales".

Reason? Most/some US built (and distributed) instruments do not carry any appreciable warranty outside the USA compared to within.

They transfer warranty issues to the retailer, who transfers it to the distributor, and the end result is usually "Caveat Emptor".

This is the potential problem with buying foreign made instruments (i.e. from the USA or Far East).

Best advice I can give is to learn exactly what you want to buy and seek out a used purchase, no point paying for a supposed warranty that in reality doesn't exist.

British makers in the UK have a different methodology. Sadly, I like American built instruments.

I know of a Martin dealer who received a shipment of Martins with similar problems. I believe that nitro finishes often need some time to "cure" and harden. Maybe sometimes "fresh" ships are released too soon to meet customer needs, maybe there is a fault in the finish chemistry.

I was once present when C.F M IV was giving a presentation in the UK. He was asked if they ever had finish issues. He said ... "every day".

This isn't a condemnation of Martin guitars, or even Huss and Dalton although their customer service was lamentable.
I guess that makers make mistakes - high volume and low volume.

[dcmey]

Originally Posted by rct

The company sells that guitar, and I expect that if they sell it to me in NJ or you in Eastern Jabip that it arrives in the proper condition to both locations.
The guy should plain and simple get his money back and CFM and the shippers, distributors, and overseas retailers should get together and try to make sure this crap doesn't happen again, not send him off for a re-fin somewhere, that's just ridiculous.

rct

Why would a person sit on a guitar for 2 months with a finish problem and not report it back to the store that he purchased it. The more that I think about with him having put tape on it he was doing something to it and he could have screwed this up himself then try to blame Martin for it. Something doesn't seem right about this in my view, which is probably why he hasn't had help from any one about this.

[dcmey]

Originally Posted by Mr. Paul

This has been an interesting back and forth on this mystery. I find it a bit curious that the request for photos was never addressed by the OP.


Paul

exactly. something doesn't add up about this.

[rct]

Originally Posted by dcmey

Why would a person sit on a guitar for 2 months with a finish problem and not report it back to the store that he purchased it. The more that I think about with him having put tape on it he was doing something to it and he could have screwed this up himself then try to blame Martin for it. Something doesn't seem right about this in my view, which is probably why he hasn't had help from any one about this.

Everything I've written was after the words "If it is as you say it is...".

rct

[Ted @ LA Guitar Sales]

Originally Posted by ACG

Ted, Thanks for the feedback. Yes, I heard that it may have been a chemical used in the glue of the case. And the guitar did spend most of it's shelf life in it.

I also doubt it has anything to do with the case, unless of course you didn't get it in the original Martin 600 series molded plastic case. Clearly something attacked the finish well after the manufacturing process. Next time order from a US dealer, <insert shameless plug here> I've been shipping guitars all over the planet for two decades and have never had any issues.

[Smitty70]

As for the tape, I believe it was a Taylor guy showing how to change strings and clean your Taylor. He put blue painters tapes on the sound hole to keep stuff out of it as he steel wooled the finger board.

[The Bard Rocks]

People outside of the US & Canada have a hard row to hoe. First, they pay a lot more than we do for the same thing. Secondly, they often get this run-around on what should be clear-cut warranty issues. I am sorry for you folks that things like this happen. The lesson to take away is to buy from your own country or be sure what the warranty does and does not cover before you buy. Probably a lesson in here for guitars imported into the US as well.

I wonder how many sales this thread has cost Martin?

[jessupe]

As one who has years of experience in product failure deduction related specifically to wood varnish I have a pretty vast understanding of varnish chemistry as well as wood science/chemistry, and frankly this whole thing seems...fishy? Setting aside any finish issues real or not, one needs to factor in what we would call "what would the average reasonable person do" in any given situation.

the moment you discovered an issue, the "reasonable" thing to do would have been to put it the case and bring it down to where you bought it, if there was to be any finish peeling, it should have been peeled right in front of the guy you got it from.

Assuming I knew the varnish type/brand...I would have to write a 25 page essay giving my reasoning on why I think whatever is going on is going on.

Don't have time for that, but something doesn't sound right...By peeling off ALL the varnish and I assume throwing it away, you basically destroyed the evidence and or the one thing that could have explained the situation. I still really have no idea why someone would do that, I could see discovering that it will peel, but certainly wouldn't go about peeling it all off as I, a reasonable person, Would want to be able to show concerned parties the issue in a state of failure.

I guess if it were a car instead of a guitar, if you went back to the dealer and peeled some off in front of them and said, look, this is a problem, that's one thing, but if you drove in after peeling all of it off, I'd be pretty sure the dealer thought you did something stupid like scrub it with a brillo pad and are now trying to get a new paint job...