Ebony Bridges

[Scotso]

If you decide to sell your ebony bridged Goodall or Collings(at least I think both of those models are ebony), please post on AGF and give a few of us a shot.

[Montesdad]

Scott - had the Collings for sale for quite some time with a lot of lookers but no takers. Just put on some new gold waverlys with ebony tuners - looks stunning.

[Scotso]

ya...nobody wants those danged ebony bridges, I guess.

[Scotso]

Originally Posted by dekutree64

I don't know of anyone who uses ebony bridges on classical guitars. Nylon strings produce very little high frequency energy, and have high internal damping, so to get a pleasant tone with them you need to get those high frequencies transferred to the soundboard as quickly and losslessly as possible.

I know nothing of classical guitars but asked a friend who plays classical guitars if any makers use ebony. His response was they are a few. He mentioned that Taylors have ebony bridges, one of which he owns. He also mentioned that one of the best guitars he ever played was made by a Philly luthier named Menkevich(sp?) which had an ebony bridge. But again,this is second hand knowledge.

[Marcus Wong]

Well, as it has already been mentioned, it is ultimately what kind of sound the luthier is trying to coax out of the guitar. The choice of bridge plate is also a factor - Maple or Rosewood?

One thing I'm curious about which I hope someone can chime in on. The bridge is the main point of energy transfer, and to make the air pump more efficient, you would technically want a higher % of energy transferred from strings to top. So going by that line of reasoning, wouldn't a material which vibrated less (ceteris paribus) result in a more efficient air pump?

[bostosh]

Originally Posted by Scotso

I am interested in hearing opinions also. I have a hard time believing the drop test proves much other than the wood sounds different. By this measure would not aluminum be even better? It really rings out when dropped.

Yes, it rings like a bell.......
Think about the sounds of a Marimba, Xylophone, Glockenspiel!
Sound transmission in dense materials,
Thinking further
i have made some bridges from billet Magnesium to test fly..
Getting ready to use with a Piezo under bone, or Graphtech?
https://drive.google.com/open?id=19B...1dYAv4P35V50vQ[/

[justonwo]

If “rings like a bell” were an important consideration for the bridge material, then no one would use mahogany back and sides. Mahogany has the “tap tone of cardboard” I have heard. My guess is that the density/weight of the bridge has more to do with its impact on the sound.

And at any rate I’ve played too many great guitar with ebony bridges to be convinced it’s required for great tone.

[cuthbert]

Originally Posted by Montesdad

My question to others in the know, why use ebony there if this is a critical link and junction to the air pump so to speak, and would dull transmission of those signals to the box?
It seems to make a good deal of sense to go this direction - we see and hear of 'tap tone' on the tops, adirondack bracing and hide glue,
why not also of bridge and bridge plate woods?

The more I read threads like this one the more I realise acoustic guitarmaking is the land of medieval superstition with a lot of seekers of philosopher's stones and stuff like that.

[ChalkLitIScream]

Lowden does this too. Dana Borgeois also wrote a piece on this here: https://bourgeoisguitars.net/tonewoods-htm/
Its the last section on the page.

something about ebony having higher dampening effects on sound.

The only advantage Ebony has over RW (that i can think of) is its durability, but I dont even think thats necessary for the bridge. Ebony for the board, RW for the bridge, like Lowden guitars would be the ideal combination it seems.

If RW did make a world of difference, then all the boutique makers would be using it as standard and we dont see that. Is it cost? availability? wear and tear on tools?

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by cuthbert

The more I read threads like this one the more I realise acoustic guitarmaking is the land of medieval superstition with a lot of seekers of philosopher's stones and stuff like that.

There's a lot of truth to that. However, if you study human behaviour a bit you'll realize that many aspects of human existence are as well: guitar-related things are just an extension of that world view.

There are people - players and makers alike - who attempt to separate the facts in guitar making from the superstitions, but it is difficult to establish a lot of facts about guitar making and the resultant void naturally fills with largely unsubstantiated belief. It is very difficult to establish a cause and effect relationship between many of the variables in guitar making and the resultant response of the instrument.

As my fluid mechanics professor, P. N. Adams, used to say, "An art is a science with too many variables."

[mercy]

I think that ebony bridges has to do with tradition. String instruments have had ebony bridges and fingerboards which has carried over to guitars. Guitarists being very traditional people have a hard time changing. To have an ebony board and rosewood bridge, aghast. I do think that large guitars are better with an ebony bridge as it tames them some but I think smaller guitars are better with rosewood. Different rosewoods do different things but all are less damping than ebony.
Since the guitar is the sum of its parts as is so often said then the parts are important cause different parts produce a different sum.

[tadol]

Ebony works well - rosewood works well - bone works well - none are “best”, since no one has defined what best means. They each have a subtle influence on the guitar, partially from their damping, partially due to weight. The bridge is a large external brace that also anchors the strings, so it has a number of different functions to do, including aesthetics. For many, it needs to look a certain way in order to be something they’d want to buy, and because of a strong tradition rooted in violin making, ebony is considered the most traditional.

[Wade Hampton]

A large part of the problem is that it isn’t possible to take off and put on bridges made of different woods, in succession, on the same guitar. So since we can’t test them that way, what we’re stuck with is anecdotal evidence and the combined experience of builders and players.

Who don’t necessarily agree with each other as to what they’ve heard or what the tonal impacts are.

I know some custom guitar builders that I respect who won’t use anything but rosewood for bridges, and others that I respect who prefer ebony.

So all I have to go on is the sound of the instruments themselves. If the guitar doesn’t sound good, I won’t buy it, yet I’ve acquired some with ebony bridges, others with rosewood.

The proof is in the pudding. If there was one wood used for bridges on steel string acoustic guitars that was clearly better, a consensus on the subject would have emerged long before now.*

No such consensus has emerged, nor is it likely to, probably for the simple reason that both ebony and rosewood bridges seem to work pretty darn well!

Hope that makes sense.


Wade Hampton Miller


*Classical guitars and other nylon string instruments operate somewhat differently, because nylon strings deliver only about a third of the vibrational energy that steel strings deliver.

[Monsoon1]

Originally Posted by bostosh

Yes, it rings like a bell.......
Think about the sounds of a Marimba, Xylophone, Glockenspiel!
Sound transmission in dense materials,
Thinking further
i have made some bridges from billet Magnesium to test fly..
Getting ready to use with a Piezo under bone, or Graphtech?
https://drive.google.com/open?id=19B...1dYAv4P35V50vQ[/

How does the weight of that compare to a wood bridge?

[Liam77]

just to add some input to this topic, I play and use gypsy jazz guitars which have a removable bridge.
So with the same guitar, you can easily see the effect of the bridge material but also weight.

Ebony is often used because it's a noble and hard wood (remember that the strings lie directly on the bridge, no saddle in general although there are exception, so the wood can not be soft).

You can see that luthiers (or even players) often carve the inside of the bridge to reduce the weight allow the guitar to "ring" more.

Using rosewood often often help to have a guitar with brighter sound. I also know a luthier that uses torrefied maple which is even lighter wich is ideal when your guitar has a muddy sound.


Here you can see what Im speaking about.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ANeS8uPpek


Hope that helps