Internal mic vs external mic

[jacm81]

I've been thinking about switching out my Fishman rare earth humbucker For one of the their humbuckers with the mic attached to it. Currently I just use the regular rare earth along with a Shure 57 Beta. Do internal mics really sound better? Are they boomier? Do you have to worry about feedback more?

[Nymuso]

I've had two guitars with internal mics. At least until I realized that the hollow sound of being in a tunnel wasn't going to go away and I ripped them both out.

[sdelsolray]

Originally Posted by jacm81

I've been thinking about switching out my Fishman rare earth humbucker For one of the their humbuckers with the mic attached to it. Currently I just use the regular rare earth along with a Shure 57 Beta. Do internal mics really sound better? Are they boomier? Do you have to worry about feedback more?

Internal condenser mics do not sound "better" than external condenser mics. They are usually much more difficult to tame to a usable point when compared to an external mic. That usable point can be quite nice as a compliment to some other pickup. Most factory systems with internal mics do not provide sufficient user tools (or ability to access to user tools) to tame the internal mic, so the internal mic is used only sparingly to obtain a glimpse of what is possible.

In order to use an internal mic with guitars I have owed (along with a SBT pickup) fairly drastic eq tweaks from a variety of eq filters are needed. Once done, an internal mic is a quality asset to blend with another pickup.

An external condenser mic is another kettle of fish. With decent placement, they do not need much, if any, eq adjustment, and they have the advantage (or disadvantage, depending on how you look at it) of not being in the guitar, so the performer can move the instrument closer for a bit more volume and away for a bit less.

As to feedback, it depends. Without eq adjustments, an internal mic will usually feedback sooner than an external mic.

An important signal chain feature that should (must?) be present when using a pickup with a microphone (internal or external) is to have separate gain and eq available before the two sources are blended together.

[ljguitar]

Hi j...

I have 4 acoustic guitar rigs with internal pickup combined with an internal mic. They then go to an external preamp, then to a stage amp and/or PA.

They all sound very natural and permit stage volume levels the average external mic cannot achieve (without feedback).

Adding an internal mic to a pickup often produces great results... And there are good internal mic solutions available.

My internal mics are not as good sounding as my $1000 studio mics...But are far superior to a pickup by itself. In fact it's rare when my dual source equipped guitars are not the best sounding guitars at gigs where I play.

I THINK THERE MIGHT BE A BETTER SOLUTION...
If I were amplifying a guitar today...I'd get a ToneDexter and rent or borrow studio mics to do the sample recordings. If you don't know what a ToneDexter is, YouTube is your friend.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Good luck putting together a better sounding system.

[Doug Young]

Internal mics can sound pretty good - I heard Tommy Emmanuel demonstrate his sound system at a workshop some time back, and he started with 100% mic, and it sounded really good. Then he added the pickup to just add a bit more solidness and punch. I was suprised by how much mic he used and how good it sounded. But usually the mic just adds some air to another pickup, tho that can be very effective. There are different mics, some better than others, and some EQ helps, as well as experimenting with the mic placement. I generally use a mic added to any pickup I install.

However, I agree with Larry that ToneDexter somewhat changes the game. I find myself mostly happy without a mic when using ToneDexter and a good pickup.

However, in the right situation, an external mic is pretty much impossible to beat. In the wrong situation, it's worthless, tho... I'd go with a good condenser rather than an SM57, for an external mic, however. KM184s work great live for solo guitar with a quiet room and a good PA.

[rockabilly69]

Originally Posted by jacm81

I've been thinking about switching out my Fishman rare earth humbucker For one of the their humbuckers with the mic attached to it. Currently I just use the regular rare earth along with a Shure 57 Beta. Do internal mics really sound better? Are they boomier? Do you have to worry about feedback more?

Just a thought...

I've owned every variant of the Fishman Rare Earth including the blend, and I really like the Seymour Duncan SA6 mag mic better as a combined magnetic/mic pickup. It's a $100 cheaper, has adjustable pole pieces, two different options for the battery power, and a mic I find easier to EQ. As a matter fact I didn't like the SA6 till somebody on this board recommended setting the mic to full on, EQ'ing that, and then backing up the mic control to more of the mag pickup. This was totally counter intuitive to anything I had ever done before, which was typically just dial in a little mic for air. But surprisingly it really worked!!! I've never found feedback to be a problem with the SA6 as long as it's EQ'ed the way I suggested.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...SABEgLVm_D_BwE

Here it is in one of my smaller Martin guitars (OM15 Gloss), where it absolutely shines...

[BluesKing777]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Internal mics can sound pretty good - I heard Tommy Emmanuel demonstrate his sound system at a workshop some time back, and he started with 100% mic, and it sounded really good. Then he added the pickup to just add a bit more solidness and punch. I was suprised by how much mic he used and how good it sounded. But usually the mic just adds some air to another pickup, tho that can be very effective. There are different mics, some better than others, and some EQ helps, as well as experimenting with the mic placement. I generally use a mic added to any pickup I install.

However, I agree with Larry that ToneDexter somewhat changes the game. I find myself mostly happy without a mic when using ToneDexter and a good pickup.

However, in the right situation, an external mic is pretty much impossible to beat. In the wrong situation, it's worthless, tho... I'd go with a good condenser rather than an SM57, for an external mic, however. KM184s work great live for solo guitar with a quiet room and a good PA.

TE usually uses a soundhole cover to wind up the Maton internal mic.

With a soundhole pickup like the Fishman REB, cover no good! Screech....

I find my REB sounds great in a guitar like my Lowden LSE1, (blend about 70% mic, but pretty ordinary in small body L-00 type guitars ...don’t know why, sorry.)


BluesKing777.

[Doug Young]

Yeah, I recall when he was demoing, he first used the mic alone, no soundhole plug. It sounded good, but then he added the plug and it tightened up the sound a bit. He claimed he didn't use it for feedback, it was to improve the sound quality. I'm sure this kind of thing depends a lot on the mic. Every pickup is different...

[zhunter]

I have owned 4 nylon string acoustics with internal mics. A Yamaha with an internal mic on a movable stem, and three GK studios with a stationary mic the preamp box. All they ever did/do is add mud to the sound. At the lowest levels they add a little bottom but beyond that nothing but muddy clutter. And at gig volumes? Howwwl! After a couple of attempts, I never dialed em up again.

I am surprised that most folks seem to like the results they get with internal mics since I never got anything remotely useable. Maybe the systems I used were junk (possible) or nylon string is not particularly suited to internal micing (possible too I guess). Or my attempts at eq were incorrect. At any rate, I am not in the internal mic camp. But preamps can fix a lot of ills so maybe with the right preamp setup. Or on a steel string.

hunter

[Schertler]

Sharing personal 10-years experience with pickups, mics, preamps .....
After all promising ideas and wishes, everything always goes to a budget in the end, and your time spent with experimenting. Well, the microphones are the only devices used for the best and true reproduction and recording tasks, the various pickup types and systems are just a compromise, however many of that compromise-type units cost as much as some old cars.......
If you are in the very beginning of searching for the most preferred option, I would recommend starting with little electret mic capsules by Oktava the MKE-3. These 12mm ECM capsules do cost some $1-10 and sound truly incredible in the body of steel-string acoustics! I have tested almost all available around ECM capsules manufactured under the latest technologies but nothing comes any close to MKE-3. I liked the specs and reviews on to the Japanese PRIMO and American PUI AUDIO capsules but I could not test them as they are not available over here, and being over-satisfied by MKE-3 I did not wish to spend more time and money for the further experiments....
Moreover, as others have noted above, not all mics work good in the body of the instrument, even expensive models, so no guarantee, you can buy $1000 mic capsule but may not get what you were expecting of !!
Cutting the costs on the pickup system would save you budget for buying a decent quality instrument!

This is MKE-5B my basic internal mic built-in into all my instruments:

[euraquilo]

Originally Posted by Schertler

This is MKE-5B my basic internal mic built-in into all my instruments:

How do you attach/install the mic?

[Ten]

That MK5 is really intriguing to try with that low of cost of entry. You only use this mic and no other pickup source?

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by jacm81

I've been thinking about switching out my Fishman rare earth humbucker For one of the their humbuckers with the mic attached to it. Currently I just use the regular rare earth along with a Shure 57 Beta. Do internal mics really sound better? Are they boomier? Do you have to worry about feedback more?

Hi jacm

The main difference is generally an internal mic will give you mobility (you can move more than ¼" on stage while playing), and more volume before feedback than any external microphone on-stage.

As to whether internal mics sound better, are-boomy etc, depends on the mic and the preamp (since better/more-useful internal mics need to be powered).

[Cuki79]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi j...

I have 4 acoustic guitar rigs with internal pickup combined with an internal mic. They then go to an external preamp, then to a stage amp and/or PA.

Do you use Audix L5O mics like Doug (I think he does)?

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Cuki79

Do you use Audix L5O mics like Doug (I think he does)?

Hi Cuki
No. When I was running dual source rigs, I used the K&K Pure Mini with the K&K stock mics.

Now I use a ToneDexter.