Taylor shims and neck resets

[Marley]

Do you think if taylor sealed their shims if might prevent some guitars from needing a reset?

I think it would be a great idea if Taylor sealed their shims to combat humidity. If measured (which I have been invloved with) the shims quite easily gain and lose humiduty causing their thickness to change. This has been brought up to Taylor and they agree the shims do change due to humidity.

What do you think? Am I way off base?

Cheers

[wooglins]

Originally Posted by Marley

There is no doubt that neck resets on Taylors have become more common than ever. Why do you think that is?

One reason might be the shims. Maybe?

I think it would be a great idea if Taylor sealed their shims to combat humidity. If measured (which I have been invloved with) the shims quite easily gain and lose humiduty causing their thickness to change. This has been brought up to Taylor and they agree the shims do change but have no interest in combating it. Why is that? Why would they prefer to authorize the thousands and thousands of neck resets that they do every year?

What do you think? Am I way off base?

Cheers

Neck resets being common came up in another thread, and I had never heard that. I have not had a Taylor long enough to chime in on personal experience, but I asked my Taylor authorized repair guy, and he said while he does do a small bit more Taylor resets, it is because it is easy to do, and costs so little. Whereas on a Dovetail he will often do other things to avoid a neck reset until it cannot be avoided like lowering the saddle, and ramping the bridge.

[Marley]

I know Taylor pays their authorized service techs around the country approx. $65 for each reset. If we were to have access to the numbers I would guess that authorized resets have gone up dramatically over the last several years. Even more than dramatically

It's not only because they are easy to do but that the guitars are in need of a reset. My question becomes why are all of these Taylors (mine included) in need of resets?

[sthompson]

Originally Posted by Marley

There is no doubt that neck resets on Taylors have become more common than ever.

....thousands and thousands of neck resets that they do every year?

Oh yes there is....I have plenty of doubt that neck resets on Taylors become
more common every year. That is, if you're speaking of a pro rata share.
There are probably more resets because every year several additional
thousands of Taylor guitars hit the field. But resets per thousand? Do you
have actual statistics on that?

Also, how exactly did you come by the knowledge that "thousands and
thousands of neck resets" are performed on Taylor guitars every year?
st

[wooglins]

Originally Posted by sthompson

Oh yes there is....I have plenty of doubt that neck resets on Taylors become
more common every year. That is, if you're speaking of a pro rata share.
There are probably more resets because every year several additional
thousands of Taylor guitars hit the field. But resets per thousand? Do you
have actual statistics on that?

Also, how exactly did you come by the knowledge that "thousands and
thousands of neck resets" are performed on Taylor guitars every year?
st

That is a good point, it is common knowledge that Taylor sold well over 100k guitars last year. Thats alot of guitar necks, that could possible have some settling etc. that requires a reset.

[Marley]

Originally Posted by sthompson

Oh yes there is....I have plenty of doubt that neck resets on Taylors become
more common every year. That is, if you're speaking of a pro rata share.
There are probably more resets because every year several additional
thousands of Taylor guitars hit the field. But resets per thousand? Do you
have actual statistics on that?

Also, how exactly did you come by the knowledge that "thousands and
thousands of neck resets" are performed on Taylor guitars every year?
st

it's only a guess. I have no actual statistics. Like most of my opinions it's based on very little fact I just know 2 guys I have been to, see about 5-10 a month. So much that for one of them Taylor resets now take up 80% of his business. On the low end that's 120 and on the high end approx 240 a year. And this is in Lousivlle, KY. If you call Taylor these are the only 2 guys they recommend in Louisville. I have no idea how many Wilcuts in Lex. does. Add up all of the authorized repairmen around the country and in big cities like Chicago and it has to be in the thousands. Only Taylor could tell us how many they authorize each year and how many they do in their service shop by customers sending in their own guitars.

Back to my original question. Why so many resets? What's the cause? It's has to be more than reason that more and more are sold.

[Marley]

Originally Posted by wooglins

That is a good point, it is common knowledge that Taylor sold well over 100k guitars last year. Thats alot of guitar necks, that could possible have some settling etc. that requires a reset.

It was a great point. I go back to just asking if it could be shims that are effected by humidty? Why not seal the shims? It's more than just doing resets is cheap and easy. No player wants their guitar to be in the shop if they can avoid it.

I had thought Taylor shipped out 80,000 guitars in 2010? Highest ever. Remember very little facts...

[wooglins]

Originally Posted by Marley

It was a great point. I go back to just asking if it could be shims that are effected by humidty? Why not seal the shims? It's more than just doing resets is cheap and easy. No player wants their guitar to be in the shop if they can avoid it.

I had thought Taylor shipped out 80,000 guitars in 2010? Highest ever. Remember very little facts...

You may be right, although I have read that they produced 500 guitars per day in 2010. I have also read that they have no stock in the factory. Both of these items are from Kurts corner in Wood and Steel. If they were only open for production for 250 of the 365 days in a year that would be 125000 guitars. I believe the 80000 number that I have seen floating around the forums refers to what Taylor considers high end guitars (probably anything 3x and above, or electric, T5, etc). Taylor being a private company its all speculation.

As too laminated shims, not sure if it would help or not. I know people that have had Taylors that have the NT neck for 5+ years and have had no issues. I do know that a repair tech will remedy action issues on a Taylor with a neck adjustment if they are trained properly, when on any other guitar these issues would be corrected by way of an saddle adjustment, and then ramping, and last resort reset.

An example is my 2008 Custom GS, when I had it setup its shims were replaced, not because the guitar needed a reset, but because I wanted lower action and the tech was properly trained at the Taylor factory to adjust the neck to accommodate my playing style. It should be noted that my neck plays with no buzz with no relief set, and nice low action. The saddle is nice and tall. Taylor picked up the bill even though technically the guitar did not need what would usually be called a reset.

[ntotoro]

Originally Posted by wooglins

An example is my 2008 Custom GS, when I had it setup its shims were replaced, not because the guitar needed a reset, but because I wanted lower action and the tech was properly trained at the Taylor factory to adjust the neck to accommodate my playing style. It should be noted that my neck plays with no buzz with no relief set, and nice low action. The saddle is nice and tall. Taylor picked up the bill even though technically the guitar did not need what would usually be called a reset.

I think this is an overlooked factor in neck resets. Taylor recommends resetting the neck to raise/lower the action rather than tweaking the saddle. This has been the case on both my 655ce and my 614ce. Matter of fact, an authorized Taylor warranty repairman/shop can do your setup as a free-of-charge (to you) warranty claim if he thinks a neck reset will best get the desired results.

Nick

[sthompson]

From guitarspecialist.com...

"For some reason it seams that Martin guitars are the most common candidate for neck resets in our shop."

Now, shall we then believe that Martin guitars need more resets than other
brands, or shall we say that Martin also makes a lot of guitars, and some
particular repair shops are adept at such work and are thus the target shops
for repair?

I've owned several Taylors and have needed zero resets. I own one Bourgeois
and it required a reset in order to be set up to my liking. May I then say that
ZERO Taylors need resets and ALL Bourgeois guitars do? Of course not.

There is simply no way to know these things and anecdotal evidence is
only speculation based on little factual evidence. I suggest care in our
generalizations for all the new forum members looking to make a decision on
their first guitar, and also to be fair and equitable to the manufacturers.
st

[sthompson]

Wooglins and ntotoro are spot on. Before the advent of the NT and other
bolt-on necks, the solution to a high action was to sand the saddle down to
a bare minimum string break angle and then, if that didn't solve the issue,
sand the bridge to further try and solve the action issue. Resetting the neck
on a dovetail joint was not a happy affair, and usually the last resort.

However, with the advent of the bolt-on neck, the saddle, string and bridge
relationship can easily remain at ideal settings through the employment of a
"15 minute" neck reset job. Wooglins had pointed out in previous threads
that there is an ideal string break angle for Taylors. Bob Taylor, Dana
Bourgeois and Bill Collings will tell you the same thing. Therefore, it's not
surprising that these bolt-on neck advocates and pioneers suggest the neck
reset to maintain the overall balance and interworkings of the instrument to
achieve tonal excellence. This does NOT however, suggest that there is
something inherently wrong or defective with the guitar. It does suggest
that neck resets are a simple affair with such guitars. Perhaps, it's also
making us all a bit smarter.
st

[Battleman]

Originally Posted by Marley

It was a great point. I go back to just asking if it could be shims that are effected by humidty? Why not seal the shims? It's more than just doing resets is cheap and easy. No player wants their guitar to be in the shop if they can avoid it.

I had thought Taylor shipped out 80,000 guitars in 2010? Highest ever. Remember very little facts...

i thought Taylor was making onehundredthousand a year, i dont think they are selling that many...I might be wrong...

[wooglins]

Originally Posted by solotaylor

i thought Taylor was making onehundredthousand a year, i dont think they are selling that many...I might be wrong...

I dont know why I mentioned it to be honest, as the OP was asking about sealed shims. Guess my ADD bad posting habits.

[Marley]

Originally Posted by wooglins

I dont know why I mentioned it to be honest, as the OP was asking about sealed shims. Guess my ADD bad posting habits.

Yes. I was only curious about sealing the shims and if this would prevent many of the neck resets.

I by no means meant to bash Taylor or anything. In fact far far from it. I am a die hard loyal Taylor fan and have been for 2 decades.

I was only curious about the shim and so far nobody has commented on them. I should not have added anything about the # of resets. If fact I'll change my original post if possible.

[Chalz]

The benefit of a bolt on neck is the ability to reset the neck quickly and easily to ensure a good playing guitar. Why try and figure out way to never have to reset the neck if the whole point of the bolt on neck is to make it easier to reset due to humidity/seasonal changes or personal preference?

Of equal importance, how would one effectively seal a shim while maintaining the high tolerances in sizing? The shims increase/decrease in increments of .002", thus finding a finish procedure consistent enough to ensure that the tolerances are maintained could prove to be absurdly difficult. Perhaps it's possible, but the question is this: Is it even close to being worth it?