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#46
10-19-2014, 09:36 PM
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It seems that for many, the first year or two of college is spent teaching them things they should've mastered in high school. That might be one reason that many businesses want to see at least a 2-yr college degree before hiring somebody . . . even though it shouldn't be necessary. 
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#47
10-19-2014, 10:06 PM
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It depends on when you went. I went in the late sixties when it wasn't all that expensive and I had a partial scholarship. But my degree was in business, which I ultimately did not want to pursue. So a few years later when I got out of the service I went again, this time on the GI Bill and even did post grad work for my ultimate goal.
So I regret not finding my real calling in time to have only gone once. Today's economic climate is such that one should be sure of a goal before entering college; you can't go just to "find yourself." It probably is a good idea to put some time between high school and college to be sure of your choice. it should not be an automatic extension of high school.
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#48
10-19-2014, 10:09 PM
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Yes, college is not for all...but beware of those voices that would generalize and categorize higher education as not necessary, or even as an impediment for living a successful life.
Education/learning is amongst the most important things that human beings can aspire to. Our current system of "loans" here in the US needs to change, and higher-education needs to become even *more* accessible for people. CONSIDER THIS.
__________________
Larry Pattis on Spotify and Pandora LarryPattis.com American Guitar Masters 100 Greatest Acoustic Guitarists Steel-string guitars by Rebecca Urlacher and Simon Fay Classical guitars by Anders Sterner
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#49
10-19-2014, 10:20 PM
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A lifetime of work you despise just makes you old before your time.
__________________
All the years combine, they melt into a dream A broken angel sings from a guitar 2005 Gibson J-45 1985 Guild D17 2012 Fender Am. Std. Stratocaster 1997 Guild Bluesbird
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#50
10-19-2014, 10:24 PM
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I don't regret it in the least. I just graduated in May with a BA in Philosophy, and though I don't have a job at the moment I'm on the path to getting one. I had surgery in August and had to wait until after I got better, just a few weeks ago, to start working. I'm waiting for a job outside of my field, in sports, but it hasn't happened yet. If that doesn't work out I'm going to teach theology at a Catholic high school. Then, I look forward to going back to school to get a Doctorate in Theology so I have the credentials to get some philosophical and theological books published which I've been working on.
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#51
10-19-2014, 10:32 PM
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Besides that, I learned a lot about myself in college and met some great people. It doesn't work out for everyone, and it seems to come down to having a clear plan for yourself. That sometimes happens at 18, but more and more, it seems to take people longer to realize what they want to do. There's nothing wrong with that. I used to advise unhappy students to take time off. Go flip burgers. Travel. Go live with your uncle in Colorado and get a job stocking shelves. Meet people. Then go back to college when you have a clearer sense of direction. My wife and I agree that while we want our kids to gain some kind of education or training beyond high school, time off in between can be very beneficial. Hopefully they'll be more mature and more focused when they decide to enroll. Honestly, I can't think of anyone I know who regrets their college education, even those doing work that's unrelated to their degrees. I know plenty of folks who regret not going, though. Last edited by ADK; 10-20-2014 at 07:22 AM.
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#52
10-19-2014, 11:27 PM
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I'm a college professor, teaching in a field that I love. And I think I have a big impact on my students. And I kind of think that I'm having a non-trivial impact on the world by helping to broaden and deepen my students' understandings and appreciations of some fundamentally important things. And some of my students are planning to teach high school, and some will go on to teach college someday, and quite a few are going to end up being doctors, so my work is having an indirect effect on many more people than just my students.
I couldn't be doing this work without a bachelor's degree and a PhD (not to mention 7 years of low paid postdoctoral positions - low paid as in we were within a few thousand dollars of qualifying for the WIC program - that essentially served as an extension of my training). My work tends to be all-consuming, and fairly intense sometimes (and I have to wear many hats) - I almost never feel I can totally leave my work behind at the office/lab, and there can be a fair bit of stress sometimes (as with most jobs). And I don't expect to ever have a 6 figure salary (not very close now, even after 20 years). But I am fortunate to be able to be doing something for a living that is useful and that I sort of feel I was born to do... and college made this possible. I'm not sure though that college really is the best thing for all students. Some are not well suited to college for a variety of reasons (which don't necessarily always include any lack of intelligence!). It seems it would be good if there were more good alternatives in the U.S. However, for many students college can really be a life-changing experience, though the benefits are not always in the area of higher salaries down the road. One of the big benefits of college is that it makes your mind a more pleasant and interesting place to spend your time. And, ideally, college helps people to develop better critical thinking skills, better intercultural awareness, and better skills and knowledge that can often make them better, more responsible members of society and more intelligent voters. I find it pretty painful when I hear how much debt many students have. College is expensive (even colleges that don't pay their faculty high salaries!). I think some students probably make some poor choices though. For example, some students who live close to their schools choose to live on campus rather than living at home, and they build up a LOT more debt as a result (yes, there are advantages of living on campus, but the increase in debt can be really significant). And sometimes I think the amount of debt becomes so staggering and feels so unreal that it starts to feel like play money, leading to some bad financial decisions sometimes (and sometimes some extravagant living) that result in the debt being even bigger than it needed to be (e.g. I see some students spending money in ways that I would never have dreamed of spending money, even ten years after I was out of college... I have played music for about 40 years, but I didn't get my first really nice guitar until I was 45, and the only way I had a nice banjo before that was by building it myself from a kit). I also think a lot of students feel they have to go to really prestigious schools if they are going to have any success in life. Well, I guess maybe this might be the case if they want to get into politics, or some other fields, but in fields such as the sciences what you have learned and what you have done (e.g. research experiences, internships, etc) are the things that are important. And student success in this regard is mostly dependent on students taking ownership of their own learning. Working hard is much more important (at least in the sciences) than precisely which school you went to (I'm talking about undergraduate degrees here - grad school is a different matter, but many/most grad students in many of the sciences have have their school paid for through assistantships, etc). The most painful situations are cases of students who are accumulating debt like there is no tomorrow but not getting much benefit from it because they are not applying themselves (possibly because they are not quite sure why they are in college, or because they need to grow up a bit), or because they have really complicated life circumstances that make it impossible for them to focus, or because they have to work so many hours to pay the bills that they can't focus on school enough to make it worth the money they are spending. At least in my field, just passing courses and just barely getting a degree is not enough if you want to have any reasonable prospects in your field after graduation.
__________________
A few of my early attempts at recording: https://www.youtube.com/user/wcap07/featured Last edited by wcap; 10-20-2014 at 07:43 AM.
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#53
10-19-2014, 11:47 PM
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I ask every new potential major what they think they might want to do with a degree in political science, and I weed out the uncommitted ones pretty quickly after a class or two - frequently sooner. Most of what wcap says I agree with, and see no point in restating it. I will add that compelling students to have a long-range plan is a good way to avoid pointless debt. I usually ask my students what they see themselves doing in ten years and then work backwards to figure out what they need to do to get themselves there. I knew a guy who worked in a guitar store in Washington, DC, who deeply regretted getting a degree in music. He thought it would have been far better for him to have majored in business with a second major or minor in music. If he had had someone tell him that early on, perhaps he wouldn't have been in his situation.
__________________
Tom I own a guitar.
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#54
10-20-2014, 12:06 AM
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The cost of college is totally insane these days.
The student loan program only makes it worse, since every increase in loan money fuels increases in tuition and books. Anyone who went to college before the mid-eighties probably got a good value for cost paid. Those attending afterwards are getting a progressively worse deal as each year goes by. Even kids with "real" degrees, in "hard" subjects, find themselves woefully under-employed and buried in debt these days. Two of my neighbors kids walked away from their US student loans and went to work in Germany after graduation. Both are doing real well, since the only thing we make in this country any more are excuses.
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#55
10-20-2014, 04:18 AM
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I went to a four year state university. It helped shape me as a person. It opened my mind to all sorts of experiences. I use the things I learned in school nearly everyday in my job. But that's not why I make good money. I make good money because I do what I love and I'm good at it. And that's more about attitude than degree. It's less about economics and more about passion. max
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#56
10-20-2014, 04:21 AM
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Reads like one big excuse to justify walking away from obligations. We make plenty in this country. And making stuff isn't the only way to earn a living. We market lots of stuff here, too. max
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#57
10-20-2014, 04:35 AM
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Graduated in 1986, in my 29th year in my profession.
__________________
2019 Applegate SJ
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#58
10-20-2014, 04:48 AM
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__________________
http://chucksmusicpage.blogspot.com/
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#59
10-20-2014, 05:00 AM
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Something I have noticed around here, home schooled children are graduating from HS and gaining an associates degree at the same time.
Both our children used local junior colleges for first two years. We found the experience affordable and felt the children gained a better education due to having non tenured educators who had to earn their position by performance. These same small institutions are preparing students for pharmacy and medical professions. As others have said, education is not just for earning potential. There are exceptionally bright students who lack the ability to manage their finances and make wise decisions. Being a doctor or lawyer is fairly common and not all are good or well paid. Being able to think and question is a good skill. I think college or even HS can prepare people for life. There is nothing wrong with developing a marketable skill, but you still should be able to read and learn beyond that skill IMHO. 
__________________
http://chucksmusicpage.blogspot.com/
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#60
10-20-2014, 05:26 AM
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I don't view it so much as college vs. no college, but rather passion vs. no passion.
If you are passionate about a field you want to plow, then you are probably in a blessed minority of folks who actually know what they really want to do with their life (from a vocational perspective). I wish more high schools would have programs and resources in place to help kids figure out and identify what they'd be really good at (vs. sending everyone down the same assembly line: High school, college, cubical life, etc....). Some folks have a passion to be a doctor, an engineer, a teacher, etc. and college is the best route for them. Other folks may have a passion for working with their hands (e.g. welding) and a trade school or an apprenticeship would be the better route. Whatever it is, if you truly love a certain field, I think you will ultimately be successful in that field. Going to college for purely mercenary reasons is not the best decision IMHO. I used to joke that the main benefit of college is that it builds the discipline in you to focus intently on subjects for which you little interest - and that prepares you for a career in the corporate/cubical world. While it is certainly ok to begin a college career "undecided" about your major and figure it out as you go, I do not think its wise to spend vast amounts of money on a nebulous endeavor of getting "educated". While I do highly value the liberal arts in producing critical thinkers who learn how to learn (and can subsequently learn the wrench turning skill sets of many different fields), I don't see the value of going into significant debt to earn some generic degree just because you don't know what else to study and you have no passion for anything. That said, if you find yourself in a not-so-great place career wise, know that NOTHING is our past is wasted - all those jumbled jig saw pieces of our life can eventually come together to form a grand picture if we are open to some help from above. Most people will ultimately be the most fruitful plowing a field they love so much that it doesn't even seem like work. Granted, there is an element of reality here (e.g. I entered the highly lucrative  field of jazz guitar when I was in my 20's, but when I got married and started a family I got a day job to pay the bills). However, I did not lay music down - it's still the main field I plow and the day job is just a means to that end. I am a guitarist who works in technology - not a technologist who plays guitar. While I did not finish a degree, I was fortunate to study guitar off & on for 3 years at North Texas State University (now UNT) and that experience changed my life for the better and I'm very grateful I had that opportunity.EDIT: Here's a story worth telling. I have friend who has a wall full of Grammy's he's won by being a record producer. He was in school at Abilene Christian University working on a pre-med degree because it "made sense and was a good path to take" although he had no real passion for it. He went to Johnson O'Conner in Atlanta and did 2 or 3 days of testing to determine what field he most likely would succeed in. The result - music production. And this guy was not a serious musician (he knew a few chords on the guitar) and did not have experience of any sort in audio engineering. Long story short, you've heard music he's produced on the radio. If you have no clue about what you want to do with life, doesn't it make sense to find a resource like Johnson O'Conner, the wise old man down the street, prayer, or anything else that will help point the way? It would cost a fraction of the time and money of a single semester of college and may help you avoid investing time and money in a path that may not be the best on for you. Last edited by 815C; 10-20-2014 at 05:59 AM.
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