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Old 05-12-2013, 05:11 PM
sonofrock82 sonofrock82 is offline
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Default Baggs Lyric, Upgrade For Takamine EF341 ?

Hi folks, this is my first post but I've read you so many times and now I need your help.

Well, I'm playing in a Springsteen Tribute band so, to be near at Bruce's icon, I use a Takamine during the shows. I have the ef341 and ef381 12 strings model, both from 90's. Both with graph ex preamp. Unplugged the guitars aren't so loud but the sound isn't so bad. Plugged they're so bottle and unnatural. Now I'd like to ask you if it's possible to add the new Baggs Lyric mic and wired to a stereo jack output and the blend the signal with my Zoom A3?? I'd like to add a more natural sounding keeping the chance of use the piezo as anti feedback weapon. What do you think about it?? I have seen a particular stereo jack by fishman but I don't know anything about electronics, phase etc

Thanks to all!!
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Old 05-13-2013, 03:21 AM
sonofrock82 sonofrock82 is offline
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Anybody please???
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Old 05-13-2013, 06:07 AM
Aaron Smith Aaron Smith is offline
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You will have to use the endpin jack from the Lyric, because the pre-amp module for the Lyric is built into the endpin. The Lyric endpin allows you to wire a 2nd source for a stereo cable, but I can't comment on how easy/difficult that would be with your existing Tak system. If you don't have electronics experience, you'll probably want a tech to do it.

Whether or not it will sound good- anybody's guess. I think at a minimum you will need to mix and EQ the two pickup systems separately.
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Old 05-13-2013, 06:40 AM
sonofrock82 sonofrock82 is offline
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Thanks for reply!

I think about eq the Takamine system by its own onboard eq, set the right amount of brightness of the alyric by its screw and blend the two sources with the A3 and eq the overall sound. I wish to use just the lyric, but in the critic situation could still use the piezo
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Old 05-13-2013, 06:42 AM
sonofrock82 sonofrock82 is offline
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The most important thing for me it's to be sure I can wire the Tak on the lyric end jack
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Old 05-13-2013, 08:36 AM
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open-road-matt open-road-matt is offline
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Are you absolutely married to the Zoom A3?

I've never used it but looking at it, it looks like there is only one input. If you're willing to consider a different preamp and another hole in your guitar, you could add the Lyric on a second jack:



That's my Taylor 514ce-n. I have the stock ES-N (nylon) pickup and then a MiniFlex 2Mic on the second jack. Tons of flexibility. If I want simple, I just use the Taylor pickup. Otherwise I blend the two sources together using a mini-mixer (Bose T1) and that gives me a lot of control over each source.

You could do the same in your Takamine and use a mini-mixer or something like a DTAR Solstice. You'd have the stock Takamine pickup when you just want a simple, plug and play set up or you could blend the Takamine pickup with the Lyric and have separate volume and EQ on each source, or just use the Lyric.

My guess is that if you are able to add the Takamine pickup to the Lyric, the Takamine pickup will be on the ring of the jack making it tough to just use the Takamine pickup should you choose to do so.

I think a second jack would give you a lot more control over your tone.

Just a thought.
Matt
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Old 05-13-2013, 09:40 AM
Carbonius Carbonius is offline
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I was thinking a similar thing to open-road-matt. 2 jacks. Another inexpensive way to mix the signals is with a basic mini-mixer. Soundcraft, Yamaha and others make small mixers in the $150 and below range.

You could also go with a POD HD500. Skip the amp modelling and this pedal still has huge features. It was designed so that you could run vocals and whatever you want to through it. It has two 1/4 inputs and 1 XLR. You can run 2 completely separate signal paths through it; separate eq, compression, reverb, chorus, etc then you can assign a pan effect to the built in expression pedal, assign it to the end of the signal chain, and blend on the fly. You can also just set the blend in the patch then have a general volume pedal over your whole sound...also nice It has stero 1/4 AND XLR outs, which can run mono, and a ground lift switch, so no di box required.

I am currently thinking of replacing my pickup system with 2 systems that I would blend in this pedal. I also run my 6 string bass through it when I play bass, instead of hauling my 70 pound amp around. I put on headphones, can still hear other instruments but hear myself in wonderful stereo. It helps me to play better

Fair warning though, this pedal frustrated a LOT of people. I ended up reading hundreds pages just to understand how to get the most out of it. Now I love it!
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Old 05-13-2013, 11:43 AM
guitaniac guitaniac is offline
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I'd go with two jacks. If you wire the Tak output leads to the the Lyric system's auxillary input, you'll have to figure out an alternative way to turn the Tak preamp on. That would normally be done by inserting a plug into the Tak's jack, since one of the contacts in that jack serves as switch for the preamp power supply.
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Old 05-13-2013, 01:14 PM
noman noman is offline
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I like the two jack approach. Lots of interesting stereo possibilities there. That way you could also exclusively select either one.

I installed 3 lyrics so far. They are a cinch.

I am curious about how a lyric may work with a 12-string. Will you be able to control the boominess? I also wonder how the presence screw will bring out the octave strings. I intend to install a Lyric in my Rainsong 12-string soon.
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Last edited by noman; 05-13-2013 at 01:21 PM.
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Old 05-13-2013, 01:51 PM
sonofrock82 sonofrock82 is offline
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Two jack option could be the best, but I think the best way is to try the lyric alone. Understand how it works on a live situation and then try to blend two sources with just two cables coming out the soundhole. Then, decided if drill or not.

Thanks to all for the support
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Old 05-14-2013, 08:10 AM
ferg ferg is offline
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I used to play an EF341 roughly from the same era that yours is. At one point, I drilled out another endpin and put in a MiniFlex microphone. It sounded like garbage. I do think that the built-in electronics of the EF341 aren't particularly natural, but there was something about them that I liked. They seemed really responsive, so achieving dynamics was easy, and they seem very well articulated (if that makes any sense).

In the end, though, I just found that I didn't want to have to deal with 2 chords, and a 2nd device to blend and dial everything in.

I did recently put a lyric in another guitar, and I do believe it will probably sound better in the Tak than the MiniFlex, but I don't consider the Tak to be a great candidate for any microphone. As an acoustic guitar, it just doesn't sound that great...but that's subjective, I suppose.

One word of caution: I've drilled endpin holes in 7 or 8 guitars and the only one where I ever had a problem was with the Tak. The ivory-colored trim that runs along the bottom right where you'd drill is very brittle. When I attempted to drill it, I got a lot of cracking and chipping. It wasn't a big deal for me, as I bought that guitar already kind of beat-up, but if it was in good shape, I would not have been happy.
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Old 05-14-2013, 09:12 AM
guitaniac guitaniac is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferg View Post
I used to play an EF341 roughly from the same era that yours is. At one point, I drilled out another endpin and put in a MiniFlex microphone. It sounded like garbage. I do think that the built-in electronics of the EF341 aren't particularly natural, but there was something about them that I liked. They seemed really responsive, so achieving dynamics was easy, and they seem very well articulated (if that makes any sense).

In the end, though, I just found that I didn't want to have to deal with 2 chords, and a 2nd device to blend and dial everything in.

I did recently put a lyric in another guitar, and I do believe it will probably sound better in the Tak than the MiniFlex, but I don't consider the Tak to be a great candidate for any microphone. As an acoustic guitar, it just doesn't sound that great...but that's subjective, I suppose.

One word of caution: I've drilled endpin holes in 7 or 8 guitars and the only one where I ever had a problem was with the Tak. The ivory-colored trim that runs along the bottom right where you'd drill is very brittle. When I attempted to drill it, I got a lot of cracking and chipping. It wasn't a big deal for me, as I bought that guitar already kind of beat-up, but if it was in good shape, I would not have been happy.
I recall your MiniFlex experiment, ferg. My recollection of what you reported at the time was that you liked the MiniFlex sound so much that you were using mostly MiniFlex in the blend. It appears that you've changed your opinion on that.

I've also tried the MiniFlex in a couple of steel-string guitars, but finally decided that its sounds best in my thin-bodied classical. For whatever reason, it blends well with the Baggs Hex pickup in that guitar. It even sounds pretty decent by itself in the classical. Its not nearly as inside-the-cave sounding in the classical as it sounded in the steel-stringers.

I'm sorry to hear that the Tak was problematic, with respect to drilling a new jack hole. A friend of mine is considering installing a Lyric system in her Tak to capture more of the tapping that she does - or at least make it so that she doesn't need to tap as forcefully to get the response she wants. This has been a issue for her because she's actually cracked the Tak's top by tapping hard enough to get an adequate response from the Tak's palathetic pickup system.
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Old 05-27-2013, 01:21 PM
sonofrock82 sonofrock82 is offline
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Hi guys, I'm here again!
I'm thinking 'bout drill another hole in my Tak and I'm not relly sure.
Now I have another questions:
DO you think If I replace the Graph Ex preamp with a Cool Tube would be an improvement?? I?m talking about the one with aux blender control, I saw two different models...
and, what could be the other source? maybe a K&k pure mini??

Thanks to all
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Old 05-27-2013, 04:19 PM
guitaniac guitaniac is offline
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The Cool Tube preamp has gotten a lot of good user feedback, for what that's worth. It does go through batteries pretty quickly, so you might also consider the DI+ which can power it.
http://www.takamine.com/electronics/acoustic_di

Last edited by guitaniac; 05-27-2013 at 04:26 PM.
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Old 05-27-2013, 09:20 PM
jimmy bookout jimmy bookout is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonofrock82 View Post
Hi guys, I'm here again!
I'm thinking 'bout drill another hole in my Tak and I'm not relly sure.
Now I have another questions:
DO you think If I replace the Graph Ex preamp with a Cool Tube would be an improvement?? I?m talking about the one with aux blender control, I saw two different models...
and, what could be the other source? maybe a K&k pure mini??

Thanks to all
Before you do that, try a Fishman Aura Spectrum. While the Zoom A3 tried (I guess) to emulate the A.S., it didn't get close and is not the most user friendly creature either (especially in a gig setting, and yes I have one that is going up for sale).

Jimmy
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