Is it really important to have a college degree?

[Twelvefret]

Does not the educational process include the ability to pursue knowledge for the entirety of one's life?

[cpabolting]

There are lots of people who have accomplished great things and been highly successful that do not have college degrees. There are also those with college degrees who have spent their life being mediocre workers and having mediocre success. For every person who is college degreed that is successful, I am sure that you can show me someone who is successful that has none.

HOWEVER.... the statistics show that those who are college educated on AVERAGE make more....

It pays..... it just does.

[Psalad]

Originally Posted by Otterhound

Why do you waste valuable time attacking my credibility while claiming I have none to begin with ?
The wheel has been reinvented more than once with great strides forward on those occasions . A few of those reinventions were the result of original thought .

I don't believe I attacked your credibility, seems like you are projecting quite a bit. I think people will have no trouble evaluating your credibility by your writing and opinions. They stand for themselves.

There is nothing wrong IMO with reinventing the wheel if you enjoy the exercise. Some might consider it a waste of time, some might argue that great minds are wasted on ideas that have already been considered for centuries, but I'm not so sure. I find thinking and developing ideas to be a reward in itself... Though it is sometimes a disappointment to find that others have been there before me. My education is not perfect and there is still more stuff I don't know than I do know, and that frustrates me as well, though I'm hoping to go back and further my education.

The point I'm making is that in order to know what it is you don't know, one needs education. One needs study. IMHO I find a large amount of arrogance in the people who actually know the least. Those with education are full of doubt because they have a clear understanding of their own ignorance on so many issues once they have studied a few subjects deeply.

[Psalad]

Originally Posted by Twelvefret

Does not the educational process include the ability to pursue knowledge for the entirety of one's life?

Absoultely that's why coursera is a godsend. I don't make it through the entire courses most of the time because they are pretty time intensive, but there is some amazing information out there for the taking!

I am looking forward to the next wave of online college education... Instead of lectures they create something interactive and immersive. That will be the killer app. Whoever develops that will be RICH!!

[Herb Hunter]

There seems to be a disturbing trend to regard ignorance as if it were a virtue. That is not the attitude that created the world’s greatest nation but it is certainly one that will promote our decline.

[Twelvefret]

Originally Posted by Herb Hunter

There seems to be a disturbing trend to regard ignorance as if it were a virtue. That is not the attitude that created the world’s greatest nation but it is certainly one that will promote our decline.

Well said; stupid was never attractive to me.

[Herb Hunter]

Originally Posted by Otterhound

These nations , if forced to fully fund their own defense would not be able to provide many of the thing that they currently do .
It is all about economics .
It's not about our military budgets , it's all about their not needing a full military budget .
I will use Germany as an example .
If the USA pulled out of Germany and Europe , Germany would need to create a standing military capable of repelling , let's say , an invader from the east .
I seriously doubt that the culture of the German lifetime student would last very long .
In fact , most of Europe's social program structures would quickly disappear when faced with needing to create individual standing militaries .
You know that this is spot on , not because I said it , but because it is true .
I certainly am not the first to say this .

Since you mentioned one country in particular, how much money does Germany save as a result of the amount the Pentagon spends on defense that directly benefits Germany and how does that compare with the sum of what Germany spends on infrastructure, healthcare, education (including free college education), etc.?

[imwjl]

Originally Posted by Psalad

Yes, trust your insincts on the arrogance thing. Holy moly.

As far as original thought, I will only say this... People without a deep education often have these "original thoughts." Because they lack context around how people throughout history have already considered and written on these topics, one without education is ultimately unknowingly trying out the same ideas as others have.... Ideas that ultimately may have a time that has passed, or that are less relevant.

There are known knowns, known unknowns, and unknown unknowns. In the case of this a person with no education likely is experiencing a huge amount of unknown unknowns and is ultimately reinventing wheels pointlessly. That's up to you though.

You make me think of the cognitive bias called the Dunning-Kruger effect. It has come up among friends, and I think seeing it may vary by your environment. I face this a lot in my day job and now as president of a community volunteer organization. It's even more of a challenge with the latter.

I suffer on both sides of it. I see uninformed or unskilled suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly assessing their ability much higher than is. As a manager or leader I will at times assume wrong that tasks which are easy for some of us are also easy for others. It gets a bit crazy for me to face people standing firm and not realizing their limitations or ineptitude. The other side is my assumption that people around me possess more knowledge.

The craziest of all is when I catch self or associates quiet or reserved because of what we know, therefore question or study, and them have the ignorant think that makes us the idiots.

[NormH3]

Originally Posted by Herb Hunter

Since you mentioned one country in particular, how much money does Germany save as a result of the amount the Pentagon spends on defense that directly benefits Germany and how does that compare with the sum of what Germany spends on infrastructure, healthcare, education (including free college education), etc.?

Let's stay on topic please.

[imwjl]

Originally Posted by Herb Hunter

There seems to be a disturbing trend to regard ignorance as if it were a virtue. That is not the attitude that created the world’s greatest nation but it is certainly one that will promote our decline.

Thanks, well said Herb. I didn't see that posted as I was composing last post.

[ewalling]

Originally Posted by Herb Hunter

There seems to be a disturbing trend to regard ignorance as if it were a virtue. That is not the attitude that created the world’s greatest nation but it is certainly one that will promote our decline.

I didn't realize you were British, Herb!

[Psalad]

Originally Posted by imwjl

I suffer on both sides of it. I see uninformed or unskilled suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly assessing their ability much higher than is. As a manager or leader I will at times assume wrong that tasks which are easy for some of us are also easy for others. It gets a bit crazy for me to face people standing firm and not realizing their limitations or ineptitude. The other side is my assumption that people around me possess more knowledge.

The craziest of all is when I catch self or associates quiet or reserved because of what we know, therefore question or study, and them have the ignorant think that makes us the idiots.

I agree, I notice it in others.. and when I'm lucky notice it in myself before I open my mouth... but unfortunately not always.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-...b_4476166.html

There is a phenomenon in psychology called the "Dunning-Kruger Effect." It's a theory that was developed, in 1999, by Dr. David Dunning and Dr. Justin Kruger, two Cornell University psychology professors.

Broadly speaking, the Dunning-Kruger Effect is defined as "a cognitive bias in which unskilled individuals suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly rating their ability much higher than is accurate. This bias is attributed to a metacognitive inability to recognize their [own] ineptitude."

[imwjl]

Originally Posted by Psalad

I agree, I notice it in others.. and when I'm lucky notice it in myself before I open my mouth... but unfortunately not always.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-...b_4476166.html

In all fairness, I can and do suffer both ways, and am sure the effect or problem also includes the mistake I've made and try to avoid where you also assume what you understand or know is easy for others. See the post I just made elsewhere here about computer security.

Closer to topic, I was a lot worse about my opinions and opening my pie hole prior to getting my college degree and advanced tech certifications that were not easy for me to achieve.

[Dirk Hofman]

Originally Posted by Herb Hunter

There seems to be a disturbing trend to regard ignorance as if it were a virtue. That is not the attitude that created the world’s greatest nation but it is certainly one that will promote our decline.

If you buy Asimov's quote, it's nothing new.

“There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.”


― Isaac Asimov

[architype]

Originally Posted by Herb Hunter

There seems to be a disturbing trend to regard ignorance as if it were a virtue. That is not the attitude that created the world’s greatest nation but it is certainly one that will promote our decline.

Well said! It is freightening to see people fall for the nonsense that is being sold as wisdom.