Hatcher's Workshop '15

[iim7V7IM7]

Mark,

I am guessing that the differences in density within the walnut samples that you mention can be adjusted for by thinning of the plates within construction correct? Do you have any sense about their relative long grain or cross grain stiffness varies between the samples?

Curious,

Bob

Originally Posted by Mark Hatcher

Hi Dano,

My first impressions of Bastogne are that it is the hardest walnut I've come across. It has a strong rich tap tone with good sustain. In the span of "Q" between mahogany and rosewood it is the closest to rosewood I've come across (with the exception of my 1850 Black Walnut).

I am not saying "it sounds just like rosewood" however. It is walnut with it's own characteristics. It is a bit lighter, as Froggy Bottom says, it would produce a very responsive guitar (not to say rosewood doesn't). Maybe, you pick-up a little more on the fundamentals than with EIR.

Here are some density samples from individual wood sets in my shop for comparison. These are listed in the number of grams per cubic inch:

East Indian Rosewood 11.79
A light mahogany 8.06
Bastogne Walnut 10.95

Bastogne is typically the densest walnut followed by Eastern Black Walnut
Here are some walnut samples for comparison:

Bastogne 10.95
Black Walnut 10.10
Peruvian 9.00
Claro 8.85

Interestingly from a variation perspective, I have been crowing about the tonal qualities of what I am calling my 1850 Black Walnut that has been seasoning since (you guessed it) 1850. It's density comes in a little over the Bastogne at 10.97

Again, these are actual shop samples and as the two Black Walnut samples show there are variances within the species. I do think these examples are representative of what you should generally expect though.

Hope That Helps!
Mark

[Mark Hatcher]

Originally Posted by iim7V7IM7

Mark,

I am guessing that the differences in density within the walnut samples that you mention can be adjusted for by thinning of the plates within construction correct? Do you have any sense about their relative long grain or cross grain stiffness varies between the samples?

Curious,

Bob

On it's own the density doesn't make a lot of difference in making a guitar, it's when you look at it's relationship to stiffness on a given board that differences really show. On top of that the tap tone certainly comes into play. I've heard Alan Carruth say you can't make a bad piece of tonewood better than it is. You can only use it in such a way as to get the most you can get from it.

The stiffness to weight ratio is what generally defines a good tonewood and, of course, how well it rings when tapped.

I'm sure you already know this, but to be clear, changing the size or thickness of a board does not change it's density, only it's weight and stiffness.

I don't have all the numbers for the weight to stiffness characteristics of each of the walnuts. I build to target stiffness and go only by the individual board.
My feel for the Bastogne is it is very stiff for it's weight both with and across the grain. It would do well on larger instruments.
Black Walnut is also very stiff for it's weight, I'd say as stiff as Indian Rosewood at lower weight, which bodes well in the responsiveness department.
Claro is quite a bit lighter and not as stiff. My preference for Claro would be a smaller bodied guitar for a tonally balanced instrument or as, I have done in the past, an acoustic bass.

Mark

[iim7V7IM7]

Thanks Mark...

Originally Posted by Mark Hatcher

On it's own the density doesn't make a lot of difference in making a guitar, it's when you look at it's relationship to stiffness on a given board that differences really show. On top of that the tap tone certainly comes into play. I've heard Alan Carruth say you can't make a bad piece of tonewood better than it is. You can only use it in such a way as to get the most you can get from it.

The stiffness to weight ratio is what generally defines a good tonewood and, of course, how well it rings when tapped.

I'm sure you already know this, but to be clear, changing the size or thickness of a board does not change it's density, only it's weight and stiffness.

I don't have all the numbers for the weight to stiffness characteristics of each of the walnuts. I build to target stiffness and go only by the individual board.
My feel for the Bastogne is it is very stiff for it's weight both with and across the grain. It would do well on larger instruments.
Black Walnut is also very stiff for it's weight, I'd say as stiff as Indian Rosewood at lower weight, which bodes well in the responsiveness department.
Claro is quite a bit lighter and not as stiff. My preference for Claro would be a smaller bodied guitar for a tonally balanced instrument or as, I have done in the past, an acoustic bass.

Mark

[Mark Hatcher]

I mentioned this Greta earlier that I am doing in the Bloodwood trim theme over EIR and Engelmann. This guitar also has an Indian rosewood neck which I think goes very well. I'll install the frets on Monday and ship it off to the finisher:







This is a full bodied Greta with:

25.5" scale length
1 3/4" nut
2 1/4" spread at saddle

Thanks for checking it out!
Mark

[dcn]

Stunning shots, Mark. By full bodied, are you referring to the scale and the fact that it has no cutaway?

[Mark Hatcher]

Originally Posted by dcn

Stunning shots, Mark. By full bodied, are you referring to the scale and the fact that it has no cutaway?

Thanks DCN!

I'm really referring only to the fact that there is no cut away

Mark

[Nemoman]

Once again the bloodwood trim and accents look really great on this guitar. The rosewood neck works really well with the overall theme too--great stuff, Mark!

[cigarfan]

Very nice Mark. I do like the scheme and that neck is going to look awesome under finish. Beautiful job!

[Mark Hatcher]

Originally Posted by Nemoman

Once again the bloodwood trim and accents look really great on this guitar. The rosewood neck works really well with the overall theme too--great stuff, Mark!

Thanks Nemoman and Cigarfan!

Both this guitar and the BRW/Bloodwood Josie will be at the finishers' soon so we'll see how they look under in the next few weeks.

Mark

[dbradfie]

Mark, I'm a big fan of your work, and always look forward to your posts. One thing that I don't think I've ever seen is a picture of you carving the necks on your guitars. Is there a particular reason for this? I've seen so many other detailed photos and descriptions of other parts of the process, that it just made me wonder.

Looking forward to your next set of pictures.

[Mark Hatcher]

Originally Posted by dbradfie

Mark, I'm a big fan of your work, and always look forward to your posts. One thing that I don't think I've ever seen is a picture of you carving the necks on your guitars. Is there a particular reason for this? I've seen so many other detailed photos and descriptions of other parts of the process, that it just made me wonder.

Looking forward to your next set of pictures.

Thanks Dano,

I guess I haven't really shown that process. I use the bandsaw to rough it out, from there it's spindle sanders, hand rasps, then hand sanded. I guess I've never shown the process because there's so much saw dust and because it's all done freehand. It's one of those things, like voicing the top, where it takes all of my concentration and it's a first thing in the morning project.
I might add that carving a neck and having it take shape in my hands is my favorite step making a guitar.

Mark

[dbradfie]

Ahhhh! It's all about the saw dust!

Your shop and your pictures are all so pristine. It makes total sense!

My wife wishes I were more like you.

Love your posts, keep em coming.

[TomB'sox]

Originally Posted by dbradfie

Ahhhh! It's all about the saw dust!

Your shop and your pictures are all so pristine. It makes total sense!

My wife wishes I were more like you.

.

Hmmm??????

[dbradfie]

My wife wishes that I kept things neat and tidy, like Mark's shop.



I don't even think he creates saw dust, only those beautiful little wood shavings, that he so expertly photographs.


Enough of that. I need more pictures.

[Mark Hatcher]

Originally Posted by dbradfie

Enough of that. I need more pictures.

As per your request, here are some last pictures of the EIR guitar after it was fretted and before I sent it to the finisher:







That's 4 guitars I have at the finisher now. So I'll soon have a lot of finished guitar pictures as they start coming back. In the meantime, I have the 3rd BRW Josie small jumbo coming along. I'm bending sides:



Setting up the back lattice bracing:



And gluing it up:



You may notice that my 2ft x 2ft go bar deck has grown to a 2ft x 8ft go bar deck.

Ahhh, one less bottleneck!

Mark