An acoustic strummer gassing for an electric but . . .

[Salzburg Steve]

Hi all.

So i have been playing acoustic for about three years now.
I love it and have manged to get a good few tunes sorted - strumming mainly with some attempts at finger style.
All sorts - CCR, Sting, Beck (not Jeff Beck) and currently really getting into some Paul Weller stuff.

So I have been gassing for a while for an electric, had a look around and found a combination which catches my eye. More on this later.

The thing is when I have a go on electric - to me it does not sound to good - just strumming and playing a bit of the stuff I know.
I like the cleaner not real hard rock and bluesy sort of sounds
My guy in the shop picks it up - play some scale stuff, riffs etc - sounds great.
Which is what I want to have a go at - minor pent over a backing tracks etc
Tried it with acoustics and it sounds a bit . . .plink plonk

I have to say it is slowing me down on pulling the triger. . . a bit.
Feels like I have got a lot to learn to adapt.

Not sure if I have a question or maybe just looking for some views from some of you experienced guys??

The guitar - Deusenberg Star Player Special in orange - looks and plays great. I love the finish and detail.
Amp - I live in an apartment so I am going to give a Yamaha Thr10c a go - can plug in my acoustic as well.
Anyone have any experience with these?


Regards

Steve

[Jeff Scott]

Originally Posted by Salzburg Steve

...CCR, Sting, Beck (not Jeff Beck) and currently really getting into some Paul Weller stuff....

No experience with the Deusenberg, but given the music you like, I'd suggest a Rickenbacker guitar, perhaps a 330.

[Steve DeRosa]

I'll repost my advice to another player in similar straits, with a few modifications:

Since you're coming over from acoustic and looking for a guitar with clean tone - and I think I have a fair idea of what you're after as I have much the same requirements - you might want to look into a full-size hollow/semi-hollow instrument. The relationship between body size and neck length gives small-body instruments like the Duesenberg a totally different feel; for a first electric I'd go with something closer to what you're accustomed to - minimize the learning curve - and move to a small-body or solid later on if you feel the need (many players don't)...

With a $3K budget (about the street price of your guitar and amp choices combined) you've got a wide-open field when it comes to a guitar/amp combination; advances in technology and internationalization of production have resulted in a level of quality in the low-to-midrange bracket that would have been unthinkable when I started playing in the early-60's - simply put, you don't need to spend $2K or more on a guitar to get top-shelf tone. One of my favorites is the Godin CW II @ $995 street, a single-cutaway/twin-P90 pickup electric in the mold of the early-50's Gibson ES-175 - if you've ever played a Seagull mini-jumbo you'll find it identical in terms of both playing feel (same body size and neck profile) and on-the-strap weight (around five pounds - 2-3 pounds less than even the lightest solidbodies), with a quicker/livelier response than most instruments of this type; I love mine - and if you like Scotty Moore's tone on Elvis' "That's All Right, Mama" (he used a Gibson ES-295 - a fancier version of the 175) you'll have an idea of what to expect...

If you're an acoustic player looking to go electric, I would be remiss if I didn't also recommend Gretsch - if they were good enough for Chet Atkins they're good enough for anyone; they're doing some amazing things with their Korean-built Electromatic lineup, and speaking as a lifelong Gretsch fan and owner since 1964 the level of quality control, fit/finish, and tone are so high - actually far above many vintage pieces I've played over the last 50+ years - that I personally see little or no reason to pay three times the price for one of their Japanese-built Professional Series models. I'd focus on the 5400/5600 Series of hollow and semi-hollow instruments @ $700-900 street: they've got versions of just about every classic Gretsch design covered (single- and double-cutaway 6120; Country Club; the ultra-rare cat's eye 6117; double-cutaway Country Gentleman and White Falcon; "Mike Nesmith" Country Gent 12-string) as well as a couple models that never-were-but-could-have-been (semi-hollow Duo-Jet/Jet-Firebird; three-pickup cats-eye Viking - I own one of the latter, BTW), nearly all of which come equipped with honest-to-Chet Filter'tron pickups - clean, crisp, and clear with a capital "C"; frankly, I'd play as many of these as I could get my hands on before making a final decision...

When it comes to amps, I'm a major fan of the Bugera V-Series - there's nobody else producing that kind of tone for that kind of money, period. For $399 street the V22 is an unbeatable bargain by any stretch of the imagination, and the new Infinium self-monitoring/self-biasing circuitry takes a lot of the expense of routine maintenance out of the equation - just plug in a new set of tubes and wail away; since we're on the subject of tubes, you may not be aware that they really do make a difference in your final tone - a little extra money spent on some good glassware puts this little tone box in the same league as many boutique amps at three and four times the price. Although it does power down for low-volume practicing via a switch on the back panel, should you still need either lower volume or headphone capability the V5 practice amp has a dedicated output, as well as an attenuator that lets you power down to 0.1W - and you can have both amps for the price of one tweed Blues Junior, and a lot less Benjamins than a '65/'68 Princeton or Deluxe Reverb Reissue...

Hope this helps...

[Irish Pennant]

I'm also an acoustic player that recently started to try to warm up to the electric. So far I've had my best time playing when I'm playing over an acoustic phrase that I've looped, not backing tracks. I improvise melodies using scales. I still haven't warmed up enough to play songs on the electric.

Electric guitar is an Epiphone Les Paul Traditional Pro.
Amp is a Fender Blues Jr III.

[Steel and wood]

Originally Posted by Irish Pennant

I'm also an acoustic player that recently started to try to warm up to the electric. So far I've had my best time playing when I'm playing over an acoustic phrase that I've looped, not backing tracks. I improvise melodies using scales. I still haven't warmed up enough to play songs on the electric.

Electric guitar is an Epiphone Les Paul Traditional Pro.
Amp is a Fender Blues Jr III.

That's what I normally do. (Improvise over any number of backing tracks just to keep my hand in). Most of my playing (songs on their own) is done using my Martin acoustic these days.

[Salzburg Steve]

Thank you guys for your feedback.

I am going to look into what you suggested and are using and it sounds like you are working at the things I want to do.

Steve - thanks for such a comprehensive reply.

i had a chance to try the Godin today - two actually - certainly more what I am looking for.
I am going to have a look around to try a Gretsch.

A question regarding the amp. I had heard of Bugera and the V5 in particular.
How effective is using the attenuator?
This is what lead me to it.
I believe amps need volume to get good tone - particularly valve amps.
Living in apartment this does not really work for a powerful amp

Oh and I love the phrase " saving some Benjamins"
Not saving Benjamins - the phrase


Steve

[rampix]

Steve, I went through the same experience a few years ago. After many years of acoustic I decided to try electric. I really was hesitant at first because I sounded terrible. It isn't such an easy transition as it seems. After staying with it for a while my skills improved and I'm very comfortable switching back and forth now. The technique is different and I had to learn that less is more with the electric.

I use a looper quite a bit. I too like laying down an acoustic rhythm and playing electric for embellishment over the top.

+1 for the V5. I use mine quite a bit, but I also like my Fender Mustang 2. I don't have a peddle board and the Mustang allows me to play around with different sounds. For playing clean or just a little breakup at lower volume the V5 is hard to beat.

If you stick with it and get a little way through the learning curve it gets to be quite fun!

[Coastman]

Similar story. I last played electric 45 years ago in my high school garage band. I stopped playing entirely for about 35 years, but picked up the acoustic guitar about 5 -6 years ago. That's all I've been playing until ~3 months ago when bought a used Reverend Double Agent OG electric after my band mates (church worship band) persuaded me to try playing electric as well as acoustic.

Unfortunately, right after I bought it I got sidelined due to a serious trigger finger problem with the index on my fretting hand, which resulted in surgery 2 months ago. I am just now easing back into playing.

This past Sunday I played electric lead with the band at church. I wasn't sure if electric was going to stick for me, but I ended up really enjoying it, and managed to nail several guitar solo "hooks" that were key to the songs we played.

I put together a small pedal board (overdrive, delay, reverb and soon a compressor). Took me a while to figure out how to use them, though!

Generally, I'll play along with the songs (YouTube, etc) we will be doing for the weekend, or use backing tracks if available. I'll also do my own rifting while practicing just to have some creative fun, but with the band I have to get as close as I can to the original song.

My advice: Absolutely give electric a try! But, unless you have plenty of spare cash, I wouldn't go overboard on a high-end electric guitar, amp, pedals, etc, until you know that you will really enjoy playing electric. Pick up something used at a decent price and see how you like it. I bought my Reverend and most of my pedals used off of Reverb. Saved a ton vs. buying new. If you discover you really aren't bonding with playing electric, or you like electric but perhaps not the one you bought, you won't have a huge investment in gear that you will have to sell at a big loss.

Good luck, and most importantly....have fun!

[rampix]

Great advice on the guitars Mike, and that was exactly how I approached it. I went through many inexpensive used guitars for a couple of years to figure out what the heck I wanted. Strat, Les Paul, Tele, Hollow Body, Semi HB, SG, G&L's...my wife thought I'd taken up guitar flipping! But the learning curve was worth it, and it was fun. I got to experience different pickups, scale lengths, balance characteristics, neck carves, maple vs rosewood boards, etc.

After all that I had honed in on what seemed best for me and my style of playing and bought nicer versions of those. I made a little on a couple, lost a little on some more, but overall it was a fairly inexpensive adventure.

OP, this worked best for me because I wouldn't really demo one in a store. My playing was so crappy at that point I was too embarrassed to play in a store. And I never could have determined much in a few minutes then either.

Have fun with it!

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by Salzburg Steve

...A question regarding the amp. I had heard of Bugera and the V5 in particular.
How effective is using the attenuator? This is what lead me to it.
I believe amps need volume to get good tone - particularly valve amps.
Living in apartment this does not really work for a powerful amp...

The attenuator really does work - recording studios have been using them for years; if you crank the master and use the preamp gain to set your overall volume you'll get some nice clean tones at bedroom volume (of course I use a Fender Frontman 212R or '65 Super Reverb for practice as often as not, so what do I know...) - and if you're still concerned about disturbing the neighbors, the V5 is one of the very few all-tube amps with a dedicated headphone output. BTW, Thomann has the V5 w/cover for 192 Euros (and the V22 w/cover for 384 Euros) as well as an excellent selection of Gretsch electrics, so you might want to start your search here...

[Salzburg Steve]

Thank you guys for some great advice and insight into your similar experiences;
I can certainly relate to the feelings when trying a guitar in the shop and sounding not to good
I like the . . .less is more

So I have had plenty to think about.

Main thing is there a music exhibition coming up in my town.
Nothing big but there certainly should be a few to look at and . . . Try

Especially going to be looking around at some hollow body guitars and to back off on buying an expensive guitar straight off.
Maybe a show offer.
Also been looking if there is anything second hand.
Get myself a Bugera V5

Lets see if I can arrange an ngd posting.

Thanks again guys
Steve

[Mr. Scott]

Hello, I hope this thread is still current.
For what you have in mind, I think your original amplifier choice is just fine. Using valve amps with attenuators is a great idea but can end up being expensive one trick ponies whereas the Yamaha will give you a wider variety of sounds at a level your surroundings can tolerate.
As far as the guitar goes, I think Duesenbergs are great guitars; I don't own one (I'd like to) but I have played a few. If you are changing from acoustic to electric, then change, it is not necessary to break yourself in. Or try a semi, something like an ES339 (Epiphone if you are keeping an eye on money, Gibson if not!). Rickenbackers I loved until I tried one- they are very idiosyncratic instruments with quite narrow necks and, from my point of view, a strange "feel". But that was most likely me. I would say, however, that you don't see them being used live very often, except in promo videos.
So that leaves you with the usual Fenders and Gibsons (and the Gretsches you mentioned), all of which have been described so much already there is no need for any more here.
I do hope you get sorted soon. Electrics are great fun and a nice change from our usual acoustics. Let us know what you decide.

[Fairlight]

A Taylor T5 might be an option to consider. I played one recently and it's a nice compromise, allowing a ton of electric AND acoustic tone flexibility. It sounds really good too! Paired with a decent modeling pedal board, you'd have access to endless tone/amp options. And with headphones, it'd be quiet for the apartment as well.

https://www.taylorguitars.com/guitars/electric/t5

[stevecuss]

Tons of great advice in this thread! I would add a hearty encouragement to go for it! Electric guitar is a lot of fun and I'm sure you'll adapt to it once you get a rig.

The surprising thing to most acoustic players is how much of a lighter touch an electric requires and how much more nuanced you can be. A lot of acoustic players can tend toward a "campfire" type strumming which does not work on electric as it muddies the sound and often the ham fisted chording bends an electric out of tune.

You've been given some great electric model suggestions above. I'd add my +1 to the "used market of $600 - $1500" range for an electric. You have a world of great options there.

Of course, the Duesenberg you initially chose is an utterly fine guitar and I believe it comes with TV Jones pickups, also known as some of the finest "filtertron style" pickups in the world. But you can buy them separately and add them to a Korean or Japanese Gretsch for about $300 and have pretty much the identical sound and some money left in the bank if you like. Having said that, the Gretsch sounds really great out of the box and is a friendly guitar to the acoustic player because of its size and tension similarities to the acoustic.

You'll probably want to end up with some form of a pedal board for effects, so a few of those benjamins for some effect pedals would be a wise budgeting move, IMO. You'll be amazed at how much better you'll sound with a bit of delay or overdrive (even if you like clean playing, a bit of dirt on the top really can add some flavor.) Of course, if you're mostly playing in your apartment, then a modeling amp would cover this, but won't sound as good as a genuine tube amp.

I think playing electric makes you a much better acoustic player, because your mistakes are amplified, so it forces more precision in your playing.

Finally, if you are strumming and don't like your sound, the first steps are:

-- play less strings
-- play softer

and go from there. enjoy - electric is a wonderful instrument!

[JohnW63]

Can you get any of the Guild Newark St models in your part of the world ? They have a lot of tone for the buck. They have hollow body, semi-hollow, chambered , and solid body versions.