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Old 01-28-2010, 10:28 AM
qwertyaass qwertyaass is offline
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Default Busted Truss Rod?

So after having some bad buzzing and deadened frets, I have went through fret.com with regards to normal set-ups with Nut, Saddle and Neck.

That said, I just can't pinpoint what the issue is. It doesn't seem to be the nut, saddle [shimmed the saddle and capo'ing the first fret doesn't help] and after doing a minor truss adjustment (losened it a bit more than 1/8) it didn't seem to affect this at all (the truss rod adjustment didn't even throw off the tuning in the slightest).

The more I think about it, the truss rod is quite 'loose' with not much resistance, which doesn't feel exactly right.

Takamine EG340SC is my guitar.
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Old 01-28-2010, 10:30 AM
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Yes, that could be it. Take it to a good luthier/tech. This is not something you want to try to fix yourself.
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Old 01-28-2010, 10:50 AM
colinmac colinmac is offline
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I was diagnosing some bad fret buzz on a (previously fine) friend's guitar just a couple of weeks ago, and the problem was that it was badly dehydrated.

You can check the symptoms with reference to the pics at http://www.larrivee.com/features/humidity.php. If you can rule out dryness then it makes a stronger case for a broken truss rod, but, especially at this time of year, it's worth checking.
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Old 01-28-2010, 10:57 AM
qwertyaass qwertyaass is offline
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Last time I checked the humidity in my room it was around 55% although I haven't checked within the last couple of weeks.

I think I will end up bringing it in to a neighborhood luthier (I prefer to stick away from Sam-Ash and Guitar-Center for setups) and see what the issue is.
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Old 01-28-2010, 11:17 AM
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Tap on the back of the neck rather firmly... do you hear a buzz in the neck when you do this? If so, it's the truss rod. But, it may not be busted at all. It may just be too loose and not tight in there. If that is the case, just snug it up enough so you feel a little tension on it and the buzz should go away. I have that happen from time to time, especially when a guitar is too humid or too dry, and if your room is 55% (taking into account that most hydrometers are not very accurate and it may indeed be MUCH more humid in there) it may be a bit too moist and causing you some issues. If that is not the problem, then bring it to a competent repair person or luthier to check it out.
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Old 01-28-2010, 12:24 PM
qwertyaass qwertyaass is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeD View Post
Tap on the back of the neck rather firmly... do you hear a buzz in the neck when you do this? If so, it's the truss rod. But, it may not be busted at all. It may just be too loose and not tight in there. If that is the case, just snug it up enough so you feel a little tension on it and the buzz should go away. I have that happen from time to time, especially when a guitar is too humid or too dry, and if your room is 55% (taking into account that most hydrometers are not very accurate and it may indeed be MUCH more humid in there) it may be a bit too moist and causing you some issues. If that is not the problem, then bring it to a competent repair person or luthier to check it out.
I was considering that it was too loose as well since I don't recall hearing or feeling a rattle inside and there is still slight resistance, although not much (I have only loosened, not tightened). Question is though, wouldn't adding more tension just create more buzz on the strings since it will just flatten the relief. Eye-balling the neck, it looks quite flat as is [and of course I am now paranoid with anymore truss adjustments]!

From what I see, the guitar is stringed with Lights (possibly even Extra-Lights) so I just ordered a pack of Ernie Medium-Lights to see if that would help at all.

I can also try moving the guitar to another drier room for a couple of days and see if that has any effect (although judging from the dryness in my nose when I wake up, I would guess my room has gotten drier recently ). And as for the tuners, they are on tight. I will check with a dental mirror tonight to see how they are seated.

Thanks for the replies!
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Old 01-28-2010, 01:21 PM
fatt-dad fatt-dad is offline
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Some guitars (my martins) have two way truss rods. There is a neutral point where there'll be slack (i.e., loose) feeling. You may just be at that point.

See what others have to say first, however as I'm just a learner (i.e., no expert).

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Old 01-28-2010, 01:51 PM
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The way those two-way truss rods work is that there is a spot where it is neither pulling or pushing, kind of like an noman's land. If you snug it up the buzz will go away if it's a truss rod issue. If it's a two way rod, you can adjust the neck to add or remove relief, so even if you sight the neck and it looks too straight, if you back it off and go the other way, you can add relief to the neck unlike a regular truss rod (one way) that can only remove relief and relies on the wood in the neck and fingerboard & string tension to do that.
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Old 01-28-2010, 05:10 PM
qwertyaass qwertyaass is offline
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Just got home. The neck doesn't make any sound or movement when knocking on the back of it (other than the tuners and sound hole vibration). I guess the rod is just loose.

Now to figure out the action issue if it isn't a the rod.
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Old 01-29-2010, 09:27 AM
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Do you have an action issue or a relief issue? They are two different things. If it's a relief issue, it could be a very easy fix with the truss rod, especially if it's a two way rod. If it's an action issue, then you need to consider neck angle & saddle height.
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Old 01-29-2010, 01:41 PM
qwertyaass qwertyaass is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeD View Post
Do you have an action issue or a relief issue? They are two different things. If it's a relief issue, it could be a very easy fix with the truss rod, especially if it's a two way rod. If it's an action issue, then you need to consider neck angle & saddle height.
See, that's what I'm trying to figure out. Right now I just have some buzzing on the Low e and A strings, around frets 4-8. On G and B, frets sound dead around 9-13.

Nut: Capoing the lower frets to see if that removed the issues but it didn't
Saddle: Shimmed the saddle to see it the extra height affected anything which it didn't do much if anything (although that could also be since I used a cheap piece of plastic just to test, it killed the sound and sustain regardless)
Neck: Slightly loosened the truss in which it felt quite 'loose' and led me here

This weekend I will probably drop it of at the 'neighborhood' guitar guy for a setup and see if he can get it properly done (unless there are real issues with the guitar). The $25 he charges should save me the aggravation. Although I would much prefer to learn how to do it first hand!

Last edited by qwertyaass; 01-29-2010 at 01:50 PM.
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Old 01-29-2010, 02:20 PM
colinmac colinmac is offline
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You may know already, and may have done this, but to check neck relief you hold down a string, usually D or G, at both 1st and 14th frets (or wherever the neck joins the body), using a capo on the 1st fret if it makes it easier. With the string held down you should be able to see a gap between the string and the top of the 7th fret, and it should be big enough to slide in a bit of thin card (e.g. a business card).

If there is no gap, or it is too small, then you need to add neck relief by loosening the truss rod to allow the strings to pull the neck forward more. If it's a two-way rod, then you can turn the adjuster nut anticlockwise (probably) to add a bit more bend in the neck; bear in mind that this will cause the truss rod to feel tighter again (as MikeD says, a two-way truss rod has a mid point in the adjustment where it feels loose.)

Your description. buzzing from 4th - 8th frets, suggests there isn't enough neck relief, i.e. you'll find virtually no gap. Giving the truss rod a few quarter-turns for experimenting won't damage anything (provided you aren't forcing anything) and if you count the quarter turns then you can always get back to where you started.
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Old 01-29-2010, 02:28 PM
qwertyaass qwertyaass is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colinmac View Post
You may know already, and may have done this, but to check neck relief you hold down a string, usually D or G, at both 1st and 14th frets (or wherever the neck joins the body), using a capo on the 1st fret if it makes it easier. With the string held down you should be able to see a gap between the string and the top of the 7th fret, and it should be big enough to slide in a bit of thin card (e.g. a business card).

If there is no gap, or it is too small, then you need to add neck relief by loosening the truss rod to allow the strings to pull the neck forward more. If it's a two-way rod, then you can turn the adjuster nut anticlockwise (probably) to add a bit more bend in the neck; bear in mind that this will cause the truss rod to feel tighter again (as MikeD says, a two-way truss rod has a mid point in the adjustment where it feels loose.)

Your description. buzzing from 4th - 8th frets, suggests there isn't enough neck relief, i.e. you'll find virtually no gap. Giving the truss rod a few quarter-turns for experimenting won't damage anything (provided you aren't forcing anything) and if you count the quarter turns then you can always get back to where you started.
I did check the relief although I did not have a ruler that would give me a good read of it. There was a slight gap between the string and fret.

As for adjusting relief, I added a bit of relief by loosening the truss rod although (I went for maybe 1/8 counter-clockwise turns two seperate times) but it didn't do much if at all. Didn't even throw off the tuning. And at this point, even loosening the rod - feels like the truss rod gives very little resistance while loosening it. At that point, I stopped adjusting (probably after a total of 1/4 counter-clockwise turn).

As for the type of Truss rod, I am really not sure what a Takamine EG340SC is fitted with.
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Old 01-29-2010, 02:54 PM
colinmac colinmac is offline
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Two 1/8 turns, i.e. 1/4 turn, isn't going to make too much difference and I wouldn't expect it to affect tuning. Try loosening it some more - aim for four quarter turns - but leave a bit of time, maybe 5 minutes, between each one. When you are depending solely on string tension to add relief then it can take time for each quarter turn to have an effect. Check the relief before each adjustment and you should observe the gap getting bigger, in which case check if the buzzing has changed.

It would be interesting to know if, as you continue to turn the adjuster nut anticlockwise, you feel more resistance building. This would be a sign of a two-way truss rod, which I'd expect in that guitar.
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Old 01-29-2010, 03:01 PM
qwertyaass qwertyaass is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colinmac View Post
Two 1/8 turns, i.e. 1/4 turn, isn't going to make too much difference and I wouldn't expect it to affect tuning. Try loosening it some more - aim for four quarter turns - but leave a bit of time, maybe 5 minutes, between each one. When you are depending solely on string tension to add relief then it can take time for each quarter turn to have an effect. Check the relief before each adjustment and you should observe the gap getting bigger, in which case check if the buzzing has changed.

It would be interesting to know if, as you continue to turn the adjuster nut anticlockwise, you feel more resistance building. This would be a sign of a two-way truss rod, which I'd expect in that guitar.
I'll give that a go. I was always under the impression that 1/4 turn was quite a significant adjustment on the neck (or more-so if tightening - since really not much of a chance to damage when loosening, correct?)
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