Build Thread - Kraut OM

[JonBarclay]

Ray was already leaning towards using lattice bracing for the back, before we discussed it... or rather, before I asked whether he had a preference! He was well aware of the type of sound / projection I was after (the type that envelops the player in this case, rather than the type that projects for miles ), although his own reasoning was more purely structural: he would tend to lattice brace backs made with potentially less stable woods i.e. this beautiful Ziricote.

This was discussed in isolation, as opposed to specifically in relation to tone, so I suspect the tone / projection can still be tailored to a degree whether or not the back is braced one way or the other...

Anyway I was happy to hear that he planned to do it this way, both because of the added support to the back, but also because I do love the look of lattice bracing

Originally Posted by iim7V7IM7

For the most part, nearly every build that I have seen made by Ray over the last 4-5 years have lattice braced backs. I have seen some ladder braced Kraut's, but they seem to be more the exception.

Me too! I think the newer OO model may have bucked the trend so far... but otherwise, total lattice-fest!

Originally Posted by stringjunky

You mean they are acoustically coupled. I don't see any scalloping that's why I think it's stiff. It would be great to hear a luthier's take on it. Somogyi makes a rich complex sound doesn't he and Mau's Kraut sounds quite clean and focussed.

Edited to add: unless he scallops the ends when he finally fits it, that would free the back to move.

If I'm remembering rightly, Ray DOES tend to scallop the braces a fair bit after they've been attached... he also caps each intersecting joint. I'll post the pictures as soon as I have them, but in the meantime any luthiers who'd like to speak to the sonic differences between the two bracing patterns - please do!

Jon

[sourceforce]

I'm excited to see how this one turns out!!! It looks gorgeous so far!!!
Mark

[JonBarclay]

Originally Posted by sourceforce

I'm excited to see how this one turns out!!! It looks gorgeous so far!!!
Mark

Thanks Mark, me too


I've asked Ray to wax lyrical about lattice vs ladder bracing... will post his response when it comes!

Jon

[swiftz07]

Love the look of your lattice Braced back Jon! Definitely looks cool thru the soundhole

[stringjunky]

Originally Posted by JonBarclay

Thanks Mark, me too


I've asked Ray to wax lyrical about lattice vs ladder bracing... will post his response when it comes!

Jon

I hope he does.

[JonBarclay]

I'm torn between wanting Ray to post here & give us some more insight into the varied bracing patterns... and not wanting to distract him from building this beauty! However, whilst the glue's drying...

Jon

[JonBarclay]

Originally Posted by swiftz07

Love the look of your lattice Braced back Jon! Definitely looks cool thru the soundhole

Thanks, it's looking fantastic isn't it!

Love the way your Doerr is looking as well... another lattice braced beauty Tom's had a couple of guitars at TAMCO in Brighton, notably a Signature with phenomenal-looking Higuerilla back & sides (didn't stick around for long, unsurprisingly!) that I would've loved to play. For me, he's on a short list of luthiers that consistently get as close to aesthetic perfection as is possible... genuinely beautiful work.

Jon

[RayK]

I just want to start this off by saying that all the views I share below are based off of how I build my guitars and they may not be the same to other builders who build instruments differently then I. There are an intense number of variables in a guitar that make all of us uniquely different and based off of my own building design I have come up with my own understandings of what changes what in my guitars.

While I was apprenticing with Ervin, he and I came up with the Lattice back bracing system as a solution to Ervin needing to thin his backs beyond what a ladder brace system would support. While taking the same amount of mass as whats in a ladder brace system we simply redistributed it in a lattice pattern across the back better supporting such a thin membrane. This increased the strength of the back substantially which is why after it is glued on I shave more then half of it off until I reach a target stiffness rating. This effectively made the Lattice braced back lighter then the ladder. As most of you know I differ from Ervin and some of his disciples as I have a keen interest in making the lightest guitar possible while maintaining the responsive orchestral quality known in the Somogyi-esque style of guitars. This is why so many of you have only seen my guitars with this design.

Now this was about ten years ago and since then I have evolved how I have made the lattice bracing and offer a ladder braced design as well. I do this because at the end of the day there is a difference in tone between the two. Theres no better or worse just a difference in which some will prefer one over the other.

With a Lattice system the back is stiffer in the longitudinal direction then in a Ladder braced back. It also has more area supported by bracing. This tends to make a guitar project farther and become louder. I like to reduce a lot of stiffness in the longitudinal direction as it tends to add more overtone content into the guitar and for the most part, people don't need a guitar to project like we once did. Thats were I feel a ladder braced back shines. It adds a lot of overtones into the instrument. However, they tend to be a softer voice and absorb some of that crisp clarity that the Lattice provides. Now, the way I build my guitars provides quite a bit of overtones already so I don't always feel the need to be adding more to the mix. This just becomes an option for someone who prefers a guitar more one way then another or some place in-between. The nice thing about the lattice is that I'm able to voice it more then what you can do with a ladder braced design.

The other variable here is off course what wood your using for the back of the guitar. Some woods have a bright lively character and others have a dark diminishing tone. Again, theres no right or wrong just preference. In these circumstances its nice to be able to control the energy flow throughout the back as even darker tones can become very resonate and responsive. That will be the case in this instance with the Zircote back. Jon wants a darker sound with all the rich complexity of a responsive guitar.

Theres more variables to this which I wont bore all of you with but I listed what are to me the most important. Its also important to know that these difference can be rather subtle and the lion share of the tone of the guitar comes from the soundboard and how it is voiced in relationship to the back.

I hope this helps and I'll be sure to send Jon some pics of the back now that I'm done voicing it.

[printer2]

Originally Posted by RayK

Theres more variables to this which I wont bore all of you with but I listed what are to me the most important. Its also important to know that these difference can be rather subtle and the lion share of the tone of the guitar comes from the soundboard and how it is voiced in relationship to the back.

If they get bored they can just skip over the post.


As someone just starting out building guitars I really appreciate when luthiers share their insights in guitar design. Hopefully some day I will be able to return the favor to other new builders. As for now getting bored with details is a hardship I am willing to endure.

[billgennaro]

It is great to hear such detail from a luthier of Ray's caliber. Thank you very much for your input. It is much appreciated and quite fascinating. How the guitar does what it does (or what it is capable of doing in the hands of a skilled builder) is a large part of the love I feel for the instrument itself. Seems like lattice bracing gives you a wee bit more control over the voice of the instrument (according to the particular way you happen to build, of course). I have only seen one of Ervin's guitars with a lattice braced back. I'll keep on the lookout for more in the future.

Again, thank you very much for the information.

[fountainhead]

Ray- thank you for your thoughtful and very informative explanation. I am fascinated by the guitar and its construction- and you are a wonderful bounty of information feeding my interests! Thanks.

BTW- this is shaping up to be one stellar instrument.

[JamesO]

Originally Posted by printer2

As for now getting bored with details is a hardship I am willing to endure.

Yes, thank you, Ray! I've wondered about the lattice-braced backs since seeing your work for the first time. Thanks for taking the time to share.

[stringjunky]

Great info, Ray. Thank you.

[swiftz07]

Thank you Ray for sharing, as I am having a lattice braced guitar being built at the moment this info is very valuable to me

[Vtckf]

Ray is great and you will really enjoy this when completed!
He graciously reshaped the neck on my Euro/Amazon OM that i bought used and i just got it back. He did an amazing job and now the neck to make it work for my smallish hands. Thanks again Ray! This ziricote Om is shaping up to be very nice and just what the buyer wants.