How to increase a guitar's treble response?

[printer2]

Originally Posted by Jon Silberman

Thanks, y'all. I'm following up on a few ideas now. They include Elixir Nanoweb 80-20 strings, a couple of different picks, and brass bridge pins. After I receive and am able to try them, I'll return to report my findings. If these don't get me where I want to be, I may spring for a replacement bone saddle. Though I'm feeling optimistic they will. The guitar is almost where I need it to be now (were it not, I'd simply sell it). I'm looking merely to add a bit of sparkle on the margins.

Brass pins will put weight right where you do not want it, hard to move back and forth faster when you have more mass to move.

[FrankHudson]

Strings for feel and sound are always part of getting a new guitar. For me it's often that I need to try two or three sets before I find something that fits my goals, and even then goals sometimes change.

Treble may sound specific, but means different things to different people. A bone saddle and to a degree a bone nut may add a bit of higher end. I have read some think bone is not a good choice for under-saddle pickups due to inconsistency, but my luthier setup my Guild with bone and an under-saddle and that hasn't been a problem for me. Installing bone parts are work while strings are just part of your regular getting to know the guitar work. I'd try strings first.

String wrapping types increase the treble balance from the lower strings when played acoustic, which can be a goal. I'd consider a Elixir HD set too -- or a similar "medium top, light bottom" set. With a magnetic pickup (if you're going to use it) I'd also consider Monel strings, like the Martin Retros.

I often swap to thinner picks when I want a more trebly sound for a special part. I find that can make a big difference when strumming, and some difference with single sting picking.

[Jon S.]

Originally Posted by printer2

Brass pins will put weight right where you do not want it, hard to move back and forth faster when you have more mass to move.

Actually, my understanding is it's more complicated than that:

>> Brass Bridge Pins. ... They usually affect the tone of the guitar by adding additional mass to the bridge, which hinders the ability of the bridge to vibrate to its full extent. This makes a guitar produce a sound that is perceived to have more treble because the effect of these additional mass has a more significant effect on the treble. Brass bridge pins reduce the tone instead of boosting it. However, brass bridge pins can help some guitars, especially the ones that are overly bass-heavy, to improve perceived treble sustain and response. https://guitarunit.com/bridge-pins-a...y-affect-tone/

[printer2]

Originally Posted by Jon Silberman

Actually, my understanding is it's more complicated than that:

>> Brass Bridge Pins. ... They usually affect the tone of the guitar by adding additional mass to the bridge, which hinders the ability of the bridge to vibrate to its full extent. This makes a guitar produce a sound that is perceived to have more treble because the effect of these additional mass has a more significant effect on the treble. Brass bridge pins reduce the tone instead of boosting it. However, brass bridge pins can help some guitars, especially the ones that are overly bass-heavy, to improve perceived treble sustain and response. https://guitarunit.com/bridge-pins-a...y-affect-tone/

"which hinders the ability of the bridge to vibrate"

And treble needs more acceleration than bass. What limits the acceleration? Mass. I was going to mention that your sentences do not make sense but I see you just copied and pasted.

I like this line "Plastic bridge pins help to improve the sound of a guitar by adding more clarity, sustain and punches and by this they are creating a brighter and stable tone."

Sounds like what is needed, the opposite of brass pins.

[Bruce Sexauer]

I like to say, not entirely in fun, that a user putting brass bridge pins on one of my guitars voids the warranty. I have gone to a great deal of trouble to minimize the weight in the center of the guitar's top in the interest of creating a highly responsive and tonally balanced instrument.

I use a variety of flat picks when playing, and the tonal differences between them is truly stunning. For a full dark sound, it is hard to beat a thicker real tortoise, or a BlueChip 60. For a bright crisp sound, a a thinner pick such as Fender Med or an Ultra barely sounds like the same guitar.

If the treble is actually weak, try a 13 and a 17 in an otherwise light gauge set.

Or, get a better guitar, or one that sounds like you want it to.

[redir]

I'm confused...

The OP more or less is showing us a pic of an electric guitar and it even looks to have some EQ on board so, ya know, jack that EQ up in the treble, take down the mids and perhaps slightly boost the bass and voila! You have more treble. Classic smiley face perhaps with the out of the corner of your mouth bass down a bit.

If that is not good enough then perhaps a pedal on the floor like an MXR or Boss EQ will get it done.

[Bruce Sexauer]

Shame on me! I never looked at the OP’s post.

[Jon S.]

Originally Posted by Bruce Sexauer

get a better guitar, or one that sounds like you want it to.

I've already addressed this here twice!

Originally Posted by Jon Silberman

I understand that such changes won't alter the guitar's fundamental characteristics. Any impacts would be on the margins. But I think that will be enough to get the guitar where I need it.

Originally Posted by Jon Silberman

The guitar is almost where I need it to be now (were it not, I'd simply sell it). I'm looking merely to add a bit of sparkle on the margins.

Thanks again to everyone for your suggestions. I have what I need to take it from here. I appreciate y'all's input.

[Jon S.]

Originally Posted by Bruce Sexauer

Shame on me! I never looked at the OP’s post.

Shame is like guilt: always optional. No worries!

[Jon S.]

For anyone interested in reading what TGP's denizens had to say on the same question I posted there:

https://www.thegearpage.net/board/in...ponse.2423234/

[Jon S.]

Originally Posted by printer2

"which hinders the ability of the bridge to vibrate"

And treble needs more acceleration than bass. What limits the acceleration? Mass. I was going to mention that your sentences do not make sense but I see you just copied and pasted.

I like this line "Plastic bridge pins help to improve the sound of a guitar by adding more clarity, sustain and punches and by this they are creating a brighter and stable tone."

Sounds like what is needed, the opposite of brass pins.

https://youtu.be/vMsFXDMMOnU

https://youtu.be/Swyp8DVFFWo

There's a lot more on the point out there if (like me) you're a down-the-rabbit-hole kinda guy with respect to tone questions.

[printer2]

Originally Posted by Jon Silberman

https://youtu.be/vMsFXDMMOnU

https://youtu.be/Swyp8DVFFWo

There's a lot more on the point out there if (like me) you're a down-the-rabbit-hole kinda guy with respect to tone questions.

First vid he is using his fingers to pluck at the strings with the plastic, with the brass he is using a thumb pick. I will not even say why this is a problem.

The second one, not much difference between the two with fingers. When using a pick there is a surprising increase in loudness. Really doubt something else in the recording chain has not changed. I switched back and forth during the playing and reduced the volume of the brass pin recording. If I believed the great increase in volume I would give an assessment but I am skeptical.

[LFL Steve]

Originally Posted by printer2

. . . I was going to mention that your sentences do not make sense but I see you just copied and pasted.

If you click on the link he posted, you'll see that the entire article is comprised of senseless (lengthy) rambling and Amazon links.

John S, both Bruce Sexauer and printer2 are correct in what they are trying to explain to you about bridge pins. Adding mass to the system at the bridge will decrease the excursion amplitude, reducing volume, and shift the resonant frequency lower in the spectrum, decreasing treble.

You didn't answer my question in this thread regarding whether you were looking to enhance the output of the treble strings or increase the overall treble response of all the strings (but you did answer that question in the TGP thread). For overall treble enhancement with this set of givens, I think your best approach is:

1. Make sure strings are properly seated and the ball ends are pulling up against the bridge plate.
2. Pick, and picking technique.
3. Strings. Try Ernie Ball Stainless Steel for electric guitars. They come in various gauges and are the brightest strings I've ever played.
4. Saddle. Probably a minor effect if any, but cheap and easy to try (but you'll have to transplant the piezo strip). If you're in an experimental mood, try shaping one from titanium; that should be interesting.

Nut: Probably no effect
Heavy pins: Not much effect, but all of it bad.

Good luck, and enjoy the journey!

[Jon S.]

Originally Posted by Steve-B

If you click on the link he posted, you'll see that the entire article is comprised of senseless (lengthy) rambling and Amazon links.

John S, both Bruce Sexauer and printer2 are correct in what they are trying to explain to you about bridge pins. Adding mass to the system at the bridge will decrease the excursion amplitude, reducing volume, and shift the resonant frequency lower in the spectrum, decreasing treble.

You didn't answer my question in this thread regarding whether you were looking to enhance the output of the treble strings or increase the overall treble response of all the strings (but you did answer that question in the TGP thread). For overall treble enhancement with this set of givens, I think your best approach is:

1. Make sure strings are properly seated and the ball ends are pulling up against the bridge plate.
2. Pick, and picking technique.
3. Strings. Try Ernie Ball Stainless Steel for electric guitars. They come in various gauges and are the brightest strings I've ever played.
4. Saddle. Probably a minor effect if any, but cheap and easy to try (but you'll have to transplant the piezo strip). If you're in an experimental mood, try shaping one from titanium; that should be interesting.

Nut: Probably no effect
Heavy pins: Not much effect, but all of it bad.

Good luck, and enjoy the journey!

Thanks for your even-keeled and practical response and suggestions.

They say there are 3 kinds of learners:

1. People who learn from personal experience.
2. People who learn from the experiences of others.
3. People who just have to pee on the third rail.

Everything affects everything, and even the very wise may not see all ends. I’m not sure if trying brass saddles on my A6 is closer to 1 or 3 but as they only cost me about $11 and are already en route, I’ll give ‘em a shot along with the other suggestions. Worst case scenario is they aren’t helpful and I put the stock pins back.

As a final thought, 22 years on the forum and I still am below 200 posts. I think this thread is my new record for posts in a thread.

[LFL Steve]

Ha! If I were you, and those heavy bridge pins showed up in my mailbox, I would ABSOLUTELY throw those suckers in there and try them out. And because I "know" what the effect would be, that's exactly the effect I would hear. Confirmation Bias. Acoustic guitar "tone" is wondrously, miraculously complex, and from a complex environment my ears (brain) would readily pick out the nuances that confirm my expectations. NOT knowing for sure what to expect is a wonderful blessing (and is why research experiments in science should be "double blind."

Enjoy!