seventies martin d 28

[ollaimh]

i went to try a seventies martin d 28 in a deal for my gibson 59 j 45. he was offereing to throw in cash. we didn't get that far. i don't have a martin, and i have fifteen guitars. i am not a martin guy but i thought it might be nice to have a classic martin. however , although it had martin sound, it was dead compared to any other d 28 i have heard. i didn't expect it to be as good as a sixties or 2000s d 28 but i was surprised. i was hoping that it might have matured and become a solid dread.

it was well played by a carefull picker, blue grass set up and well worn back of the neck right up to the joint, but not much pick wear or back belt rash. just staining where your right arm rests on the body.

so it was a heavily played , but well cared for guitar. just what i would want.

i have heard seventies martins were duds, but i have also recently heard that many matured fine. i looked inside. the bridge plate was rosewood and about twice the size of that in my gibson j 45. so is that it? too heavy and too big of a bridge plate? it just seemed so dead compared to every other d 28 i have ever tried. any opinions

[L20A]

The rosewood bridge plate will hold back some potential sound but it shouldn't cause the guitar to sound muted or dead.
I would suggest trying some new strings to see how it sounds.

70's Martin guitars are not duds in general and get a bad reputation because of some bridge placement problems on about 1/3 of the dreadnought guitars from that era.
This will cause an intonation problem and should be easy to catch.

I have heard some 60's and 70's Martin dreds that were less than stellar so they do exist.
If you didn't like the one that you played move on and keep looking.

[Borderdon]

Possibly making a mistake by painting all ‘70’s Martins with the same brush, most I’ve played have been fine instruments, some, outstanding, built with premium tonewoods and well matured after all these years.
Some real bargains out there IMHO.

[Osage]

I wouldn't paint them all with the same brush either and great ones can certainly be found but having played well over 100 of them, the late 60's and 70's Martins consistently sound worse than Martins from any other era. There were so many cost cutting moves made over a very short time period and it just caught up with them. They can be a bargain but often, you get what you pay for.

[chrisserger]

My dad has a 1974 or 1975 D28 that sounds better than just about anything I've ever played. I played an Olson at Gruhn once that sounded better -- that's about it.

Dad's had a few different luthiers do work on it over the years and they have all complimented it as an exceptional Martin.

[oxygenman]

About six years ago, I gave my ‘84 D-35 to my son-in-law. I’ve got several knowledgable friends who consistently maintain that Martins from the early to mid ‘80s are among the worst the company ever made. I’ve never questioned their theory, in part because my first Martin, which I traded in on the D-35 back in January of ‘85, was an ‘81 D-18 that truly was not a very good guitar. I liked the 35 but, when I could finally afford to, I moved on to some guitars that I liked better. I mention all of this because on Christmas night, I played that D-35 for the first time in years, and in the context of bluegrass rhythm guitar, it sounded magnificent, really special. It had light gauge strings on it too. My daughter caught a tune on video, and I listen to it every now and then and marvel. This served as a reminder that generalizations can only go so far.

[BoneDigger]

A local store had an early 70s D18 and I got a chance to try it out. It didn't hold a candle to my 2017 D18. Like the D28 you tried, it was a dud.

[Wade Hampton]

Regardless of what year they happen to be built, there are outstanding guitars built every year and there are some real duds built every year, as well. Regardless of manufacturer. The fact that this particular 1970's era Martin fits the online stereotype of 1970's Martins does not indicate that all guitars built by Martin during that decade are dogs.


whm

Originally Posted by Osage

I wouldn't paint them all with the same brush either and great ones can certainly be found but having played well over 100 of them, the late 60's and 70's Martins consistently sound worse than Martins from any other era. There were so many cost cutting moves made over a very short time period and it just caught up with them. They can be a bargain but often, you get what you pay for.

It's always interesting to hear other people's perspectives on this topic, for me anyway. I'm curious what you perceive as "cost cutting moves" in that period? Thanks in advance.

[Ten]

Originally Posted by Todd Yates

It's always interesting to hear other people's perspectives on this topic, for me anyway. I'm curious what you perceive as "cost cutting moves" in that period? Thanks in advance.

Not the intended responder to this comment, but I'd recommend looking at Bryan Kimsey's information on this topic:

http://www.bryankimsey.com/70s_D28/index.htm

Recently on this forum there was a D-18 for sale that had already been given the Kimsey treatment, and in my mind that made it a very desirable option for someone (unfortunately not me).

Originally Posted by Ten

Not the intended responder to this comment, but I'd recommend looking at Bryan Kimsey's information on this topic:

I know Bryan's work well, and you'll find videos of some of my guitars on his YouTube channel.

My question was specifically what changes were perceived as "cost cutting" in that period.

[manyguitars]

Originally Posted by Ten

Not the intended responder to this comment, but I'd recommend looking at Bryan Kimsey's information on this topic:

http://www.bryankimsey.com/70s_D28/index.htm

Recently on this forum there was a D-18 for sale that had already been given the Kimsey treatment, and in my mind that made it a very desirable option for someone (unfortunately not me).

Ten: thank you for the link. That is extremely informative and it illustrates
how little the average player knows about his/her own guitar.
I have a '72 D-18 in my collection and I love it. Great sound and a
fingerboard that "inspires". On the other hand my 2011 D-35 is the
one that is the Dud.. and needs the analysis of an astute luthier.

[Ten]

Originally Posted by Todd Yates

I know Bryan's work well, and you'll find videos of some of my guitars on his YouTube channel.



My question was specifically what changes were perceived as "cost cutting" in that period.

Nice! My understanding was that the large bridge plate was a “cost cutting measure” to reduce possible repair costs, but I’m no expert. You obviously have more skin in the game, I’m curious to know as well what else may be known about this period, as I may be sending one to Bryan myself one of these days.

[L20A]

Ten,
The 70's Martins did have some changes which affect the sound of the guitars.
The oversize bridge plate, moving the braces back and not scalloping the braces
were measures done to protect the integrity of the guitars.
People were moving to heavy gauge strings at the time and Martin guitars current build was not holding up the the extra tension.
These measures were not done as cost cutting measures.

Then there was the problem with one of the jigs that was used to place the bridges on the guitars.
It was warn out and put the bridge in the wrong place, which causes intonation problems.
This issue was repaired under warranty to original owners.

I am not aware of any problems with Martin guitars from the 80's though.
In fact Martin replaced the 5 year warranty with a lifetime warranty at that point in time.

[Osage]

Originally Posted by Todd Yates

It's always interesting to hear other people's perspectives on this topic, for me anyway. I'm curious what you perceive as "cost cutting moves" in that period? Thanks in advance.

In no order

1: The switch from hot hide glue to Elmers.
2: the switch from a small maple bridge plate to a huge East Indian Rosewood one to save on warrantee work.
3: The switch from Brazilian to East Indian Rosewood.
4: Slightly thicker tops, again to reduce warrantee work
5: Switch from T-bar to metal tube in the neck.
6: Finish over the pickguard!

all of these things were done for cost reasons and cost reasons alone. They all happened over the course of a couple years and they added up.

Now, I'm not saying all 70's Martins are bad, because they're not. I've played a couple great ones. I've played plenty that were not amazing but perfectly fine as well. What I'm saying is that, in my personal hands on experience, there are more bad ones from this era than from any other era of Martins history.