Blumlein Configuration Question

[The Colonel]

Has anyone here used the Blumlein configuration plus a mic pointed directly at the guitar and blended the two together? Or does that defeat the purpose?

[rick-slo]

Yes and no regarding any stereo recording on a guitar using more
than two mikes. If you get a sound you like then it does work, if
you don't then it doesn't work. How's that for clarifying things.

My concerns:
Stereo:
1. panned hard right and left to avoid phase cancellations
2. where does the third mike go in the stereo field that would
not contribute to phase cancellations? However if the third mike
was positioned so that is picking up a significantly different
sound, say further back with more room reflections and time
delay it might add something useful to blend in. A third sound
source such as a pickup on the guitar adds a different sound
and can blend in nicely.

[runamuck]

I've never done it but I'm curious: why would you ask rather than try it yourself? Do you not trust what you might think you hear?

[The Colonel]

I don't have a pair of ribbon mics (yet) that I could use to even try this configuration, so it was a hypothetical question. But I will try it when and if I have the proper equipment.

[ukejon]

Originally Posted by runamuck

I've never done it but I'm curious: why would you ask rather than try it yourself? Do you not trust what you might think you hear?

Presumably, one might ask such a question to get precisely the kind of well informed advice that Derek offered.

[The Colonel]

To answer Derek's question I would consider placing the mic pointed at the guitar in the middle of the stereo field, but am aware of the phase issues.

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by The Colonel

To answer Derek's question I would consider placing the mic pointed at the guitar in the middle of the stereo field, but am aware of the phase issues.

That set up (perhaps unless the middle mike was way back) would probably not be advisable - hey, but you never know.

[ChuckS]

Originally Posted by The Colonel

Has anyone here used the Blumlein configuration plus a mic pointed directly at the guitar and blended the two together? Or does that defeat the purpose?

If this is for solo acoustic recording why even use the Blumlein configuration? Regarding the extra mic, what's the goal/purpose?

When I got to a point where I had more than 2 mics I tried some 3 mic configurations. After posting what I was doing I was appropriately steered back to refining my 2 mics technique. While the experimenting with various configurations was interesting and helped me understand/relate to various recording options, I evenually realized that I prefer a stereo spaced pair configuration and since I don't spend a lot of time recording I limit myself to the variables to that setup.

[Trevor B.]

Originally Posted by The Colonel

To answer Derek's question I would consider placing the mic pointed at the guitar in the middle of the stereo field, but am aware of the phase issues.

Just a thought, but you can cover the whole stereo field (centre and hard right, hard left) with an M/S (mid/side) configuration that not only eliminates phase issues but sums perfectly to mono (the mid mic). The other advantage to this configuration is that you only need two mikes (one figure of eight and one cardioid). And, many DAWs have plugins that will do the decoding for you.

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by Trevor B.

Just a thought, but you can cover the whole stereo field (centre and hard right, hard left) with an M/S (mid/side) configuration that not only eliminates phase issues but sums perfectly to mono (the mid mic). The other advantage to this configuration is that you only need two mikes (one figure of eight and one cardioid). And, many DAWs have plugins that will do the decoding for you.

MS is fine if mono compatibility is a major issue to you. Otherwise I prefer space pairs as that sounds better IMO for solo guitar recordings.

[sdelsolray]

Originally Posted by The Colonel

Has anyone here used the Blumlein configuration plus a mic pointed directly at the guitar and blended the two together? Or does that defeat the purpose?

Adding a third mic to a Blumlein configuration will work if the third mic is either (i) placed in the same spot as the other pair or (ii) far enough away from the pair to reduce possible phase cancellation issues.

More importantly is the status of your room. Blumlein works best in good rooms. In bad rooms, not so much.

[Trevor B.]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

MS is fine if mono compatibility is a major issue to you. Otherwise I prefer space pairs as that sounds better IMO for solo guitar recordings.

Hey Derek, My M/S suggestion was in response to the Colonel's OP (Blumlein + a mid mic). For me the jury is still out re: spaced pair vs M/S. The one sure thing is that with sensitive mikes I need to have at least 18" between the them and my guitars, especially with nylon strings, regardless of configuration. But that probably says more about my particular set-up than anything else.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by ChuckS

If this is for solo acoustic recording why even use the Blumlein configuration? Regarding the extra mic, what's the goal/purpose? .

Blumlein is basically X/Y but with figure 8 mics. (or maybe more correctly, XY is Blumlein with cardiods, since Blumlein's work came first?) I think it can work well for guitar, depending on the room - since it picks up the room from the back of the mics. I wouldn't expect adding a mid mic to be very useful, it's already a phase-coherent placement, and more narrow and focused than space pairs, so you don't need to fill in the middle. But if you want more control over the middle, then using MS instead would do that. I use an AEA R88 stereo mic that mounts vertically, so I can set it up for Blumlein, get the sound dialed in and balanced and then just rotate the mic a 1/4 turn and it becomes MS. Then you can have anything from mono to ultra-wide. But as with anything, you never know till you try - there are almost infinite mic placement possibilities, and you may find something that works for your guitar, room, etc, even if it doesn't work for anyone else.

[The Colonel]

Thanks all. As a proud owner of a Rode Nt4, which is a stereo mic permanently in X-Y configuration, I am very interested in a stereo ribbon mic like the one Doug mentioned.