Most INNOVATIVE guitar maker in the last 100 years?

[oldgeezer]

Originally Posted by JohnW63

I think it depends on how you define innovation.

An acoustic guitar has almost always been a wood box with braces, a neck, and strings. So, making a box that you alter the bracing slightly so you can use steel strings in not that innovative, in my mind, and neither is making a slightly different shape to make it louder for bands. For most, it's still the same basic guitar as it always was. Innovation for me is LARGE changes that can change the industry. .

First off, I agree with all your points regarding Kaman.
However, the X brace was not a "slight redesign" of an existing bracing. Before the X the majority of guitars were ladder braced, which is a far cry from the X brace. The X brace was a "complete redesign", not a slight alteration.
Ditto for the Dreadnaught. Before CF Martin came on the scene guitars were tiny little things people used to sit on their lap in a quiet little room and plink on. It took a true innovator to see past that and radically change everything that came after.

[Jasper64]

Originally Posted by Side Man

Sorry, but at the risk of offending R. Taylor owners, they are (were?) hand assembled - not hand crafted...

That was for all the guitar snobs who think only "hand made" guitars
can even be considered as a real guitar.

[Jasper64]

Originally Posted by Athana

But Taylors innovations are innovations in manufactoring process directed at more profit..not at improving the guitar as a musical instrument.

If Taylors innovations produced a more musical musical instrument that would be different.
My opinion.

I could not disagree more.

[JohnW63]

oldgeezer,

Moving the pattern around doesn't seem a fundamental change to me. If that were a BIG criteria, Ovation guitars would win that award since they have a LOT of different bracing patterns in their guitars, even with the ones that still have a single, central, sound hole, let alone the ones with 22 sound holes or just 11 of them.

As for the dreadnaughts... from what I have read, they were ASKED to make that change by someone else and helped make it in concert WITH that customer. It was not Martin's out of the blue idea. But, even with that, making a more rectangle box of wood, rather than a more curved one is still a wooden box with a flat back, sides, and top made out of the same things they ALWAYS made them out of. Because the design became popular, most everyone followed suit with their version of it. It's like saying who ever came up with the most popular in ground pool shape is a pool innovator. In short, they hit upon a very POPULAR shaped guitar , but did not make a fundamental CHANGE to guitar making.

[SpruceTop]

Ovation.

Why?

1) An easy to use and viable acoustic-electric amplification system;

2) First durable, road-worthy guitar;

3) Well-balanced tone for stage use and recording;

4) First affordable guitars using carbon fiber (Adamas).

Regards,

SpruceTop

[fazool]

Originally Posted by Rockguy475

Martin. They invented the first dreadnought guitar in 1916. This is by far the most copied guitar design.

Some of these other answers are just silly.

I agree with this.

[oldgeezer]

Originally Posted by JohnW63

oldgeezer,

Moving the pattern around doesn't seem a fundamental change to me. If that were a BIG criteria, Ovation guitars would win that award since they have a LOT of different bracing patterns in their guitars, even with the ones that still have a single, central, sound hole, let alone the ones with 22 sound holes or just 11 of them.

As for the dreadnaughts... from what I have read, they were ASKED to make that change by someone else and helped make it in concert WITH that customer. It was not Martin's out of the blue idea. But, even with that, making a more rectangle box of wood, rather than a more curved one is still a wooden box with a flat back, sides, and top made out of the same things they ALWAYS made them out of. Because the design became popular, most everyone followed suit with their version of it. It's like saying who ever came up with the most popular in ground pool shape is a pool innovator. In short, they hit upon a very POPULAR shaped guitar , but did not make a fundamental CHANGE to guitar making.

Nobody moved the pattern around, Martin came up with a completely new one.

Before CFMartin


After CF Martin


If you cannot look at the differences between the two and see that, no amount of discussion on an internet forum will change that.
Once again, if you can't see the huge leap from this



to this



Then this discussion is pointless.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by hardydog

I'm biased... Michael Gurian made guitars from the 1960's to 1981.
He made them for the likes of Bob Dylan and Paul Simon. One of the great modern luthiers.
PS I've got a Gurian JBH a wonderful and rare guitar LOL.

I had a Gurian many years ago!

Regards,

SpruceTop

[upsidedown]

The meaning of the term "Innovative" -- in the context of the original post of this thread -- is subject to debate, obviously! To me it implies practical changes to the construction of The Instrument which (a) improved its sound and playability and (b) have endured.
So, clearly by that definition of the word, I wouldn't include Bob Taylor on the short list of innovators.

That said, I am ignorant as to his contribution to the field of mass production, for which many here believe DOES make him innovative.
Anyone want to link me to an article?

[LouieAtienza]

I believe Hartley Peavey was the first to use CNCs for cutting guitar parts; might have still been programming with punch cards then... Tom Anderson was the first boutique electric guitar maker to use a Fadal CNC (and ghost builder to some famous makers I will not say), and I believe introduced Bob Taylor to CNC.

As to innovative acoustic guitar makers? There have been many great innovations and it would be tough to choose one. The x-brace has been around for over 170 years or so... But maybe a list of "greatest hits?" (in no particular order of importance nor chronological order) would be interesting:

- Gibson archtop guitars
- Martin 14-fret guitars
- Scalloped bracing (Martin?)
- Gurian pinned neck joint
- Kaman composite backs
- Snallman lattice brace
- Cumpiano barrel-bolt neck joint
- Novak fanned frets
- Gilbert classical bridge
- Gilbert tuners
- Laskin body bevels
- Humphrey raised neck/negative string pull top
- Kasha bracing
- Manzer wedge
- Dammann Nomex double top
- Decker (Rainsong) carbon-fiber guitar
- Parker archtop neck joint

and stuff I don't know whom to attribute to:

- dual action trussrod
- use of carbon fiber reinforcement
- T-frets
- acoustic guitar piezo pickup (Kaman? Takamine?)
- onboard tuner
- high ratio tuners (Gotoh?)
- sound port

[Watt]

Originally Posted by Rockguy475

Martin. They invented the first dreadnought guitar in 1916. This is by far the most copied guitar design.

Some of these other answers are just silly.

The first dreadnought might have been built by Martin but it certainly did not bear the Martin logo. It was designed by John Deichman, Martin's factory forman, for Ditson. To say that Martin "invented the dreadnought" is a simplification.

[JohnW63]

Nobody moved the pattern around, Martin came up with a completely new one.

Martin moved the sticks that braced the top around into a pattern that was different than they had used before. Rearranging the pattern was a good idea, but it is STILL just a pattern of wooden sticks that do the same thing they always did and using the same materials they always used. Still, THAT was not put into use in the last 100 years. They started it in 1845 or so, so EVEN if that could be considered, it falls outside the date range of this topic.

As far as a dreadnaught vs others .... Here is an image of guitar shapes. Show me which one is so innovative that is really stands out from the rest.



They are ALL basically a figure 8 shape with some thicker middles and some size changes. Cut-a-ways are just sliced off sections of the basic guitar shape. I could take the small ones and enlarge them and post those side by side with the larger ones and no one would be able to tell the difference. The construction of them all is very close to the same. The only change is the shape of the mold the guitar is built in. They all evolve from the same shape.

[AZLiberty]

Originally Posted by DjFuzzyMcPickle

Did you miss the part where he literally changed the game in wasted and over deforestation where literally 90% of the trees being cut were being wasted for the 10% that was good??

Actually that's just Bob making stuff up. Or would you like me to show you pictures of decades old Larrivees with striped ebony?

Most "black" ebony is dyed. Martin has been dying ebony black for decades.

[oldgeezer]

Originally Posted by JohnW63

Martin moved the sticks that braced the top around into a pattern that was different than they had used before. Rearranging the pattern was a good idea, but it is STILL just a pattern of wooden sticks that do the same thing they always did and using the same materials they always used. Still, THAT was not put into use in the last 100 years. They started it in 1845 or so, so EVEN if that could be considered, it falls outside the date range of this topic.

He did a whole lot more than just "move some braces around".
The ladder braced guitars used huge, meaty braces, a huge patch for a bridge plate, etc.
The design Martin came up with is much more graceful, much lighter, and much more well thought out. Much narrower, tapered braces. Many more of them, placed in a way that allows the top to vibrate much better, and yet withstand the force of steel strings, and a much smaller, more streamlined bridge plate. Way, way more than "just moving a few braces around". As I said, a complete redesign. The fact that you can look at those two pictures and say he just moved a few braces around says loads about what you are willing to dismiss.
And as far as it not being put into use in the last hundred years, it's been used almost from it's inception by nearly every steel string guitar builder in the last 170 years. Congratulations on finding a way to dismiss 170 years of innovation and experience on a technicality.

[Glennwillow]

Originally Posted by LouieAtienza

I believe Hartley Peavey was the first to use CNCs for cutting guitar parts; might have still been programming with punch cards then... Tom Anderson was the first boutique electric guitar maker to use a Fadal CNC (and ghost builder to some famous makers I will not say), and I believe introduced Bob Taylor to CNC.

As to innovative acoustic guitar makers? There have been many great innovations and it would be tough to choose one. The x-brace has been around for over 170 years or so... But maybe a list of "greatest hits?" (in no particular order of importance nor chronological order) would be interesting:

- Gibson archtop guitars
- Martin 14-fret guitars
- Scalloped bracing (Martin?)
- Gurian pinned neck joint
- Kaman composite backs
- Snallman lattice brace
- Cumpiano barrel-bolt neck joint
- Novak fanned frets
- Gilbert classical bridge
- Gilbert tuners
- Laskin body bevels
- Humphrey raised neck/negative string pull top
- Kasha bracing
- Manzer wedge
- Dammann Nomex double top
- Decker (Rainsong) carbon-fiber guitar
- Parker archtop neck joint

and stuff I don't know whom to attribute to:

- dual action trussrod
- use of carbon fiber reinforcement
- T-frets
- acoustic guitar piezo pickup (Kaman? Takamine?)
- onboard tuner
- high ratio tuners (Gotoh?)
- sound port

Thanks for this Louie -- this is some really good information, more off the beaten track.

- Glenn