How do you go about getting chords from a song?

[indigomist]

For example: I'm trying to work out the chords to this song.

Anne Briggs - Willie O' Winsbury
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rr16W2wStXQ

But I don't have a clue to do it. I think it might be because there is no bassline (I can sometimes do it when I can hear a bassline). I assume with time, more practise and experience I will get better at it...

Anyone willing to help out?

Cheers m'dears.

[callouses]

first I figure out the key it's in, then I figure out the chord pattern. from there, it's easy to transpose to other keys, or make chord substitutions. You are right, this one is hard to hear, especially with the speakers on my pc, but I can make out where the 4 and 5 chords come in, so i'd start with what you know is right and build on it from there. I can't quite make out if it's basically a 4-5-2-1 progression or not. or maybe 4-5-6m-1. like i said, my speakers are old and fuzzy sounding anyway. when you figure out the key it's in, then you number the tone of the scale in that key 1-7. from there, there are many common chord patterns people use, like, 1 4 5, or 1 4 1 2 5, or 1 3 4 1 5, or 5 2 1, or so forth. hope this helps.

[fazool]

I start out with the simple bass line. I'll single pluck along by ear until I figure out the bass. Then, I'll convert the bass notes into chords to get the basic feel. Then I'll start scrutinizing my chords for variants (augs/dims/adds/etc)

[stanron]

First may I congratulate you on having very good taste. Later, If you want, I'll have a listen and chart the chords for you. In the meantime be aware that the verse starts on chord IV of whichever key it is. She's playing a bouzouki and if I remember right it was tuned in fifths and octaves or fourths and octaves so you wont hear an awful lot of thirds. Hope this helps.

[stanron]

I've just consulted the memory vaults and realised that it ends on chord IV as well so it's not surprising that it is tricky. I have yet to check if my chords are significantly different to hers but I can get through it using I, IV, V and vi. Cheers.

[stanron]

Ok so Foyle's war is over so here is what I got

Willie O Winsbury

Key G ish

This is what I'm hearing

The

|C /  /  /     |  /  /  /  / |G /   /  /  /  |D /  /  /  | / / / / |
king    had       been    a    pri –  son –    er 	         a

|C  /  /  /    |  / /   /  / |  C /  /  /    |  /  /  /  /  |
Pris - oner      long   in      Spain                   and

| G  /   /  /  | /  /  /  /  | G  /  /  / | /   /  /  /  |  /  /  /  /  |
Will   -   ie    of    the     Wins  bu -  ry                    has lain

|C  /   /   /  | / /   /   / | / / / /| / / / /|
Long   with his daugh-ter  at home
 
 
 I would play it like this
 
 |C///|G///|G///|D///|
 |C///|D///|C///|////|
 |G///|C///|G/D/|Em///|////|
 |C///|////|////|////|

The bouzouki tuning was something like GDGD or GAGA possibly capoed up from lower notes.

Some of the D chords are just Ds so they could be D or G. You decide. It was all a long long time ago.

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by indigomist

For example: I'm trying to work out the chords to this song.

Anne Briggs - Willie O' Winsbury
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rr16W2wStXQ

But I don't have a clue to do it. I think it might be because there is no bassline (I can sometimes do it when I can hear a bassline). I assume with time, more practise and experience I will get better at it...

Anyone willing to help out?

Cheers m'dears.

Ah, Anne Briggs! I'm with stanron here - not exactly an under-rated singer (either then or now) by anyone who knew or heard her, but certainly didn't achieve the wider recognition and success she deserved back in the day. (Partly down to her own dislike of the spotlight.)

Anyway, this tune does present a few (minor) problems:
1. no bass line (as you say);
2. on bouzouki (or something) not guitar - leading to some ambiguous or partial chord forms;
3. slightly out of tune with concert;
4. melody never resolves to the tonic of the key (which is debatable anyway.

Anyway I pretty much agree with stanron's results. Notice the three chords are C, G and D, suggesting key of G, but most of the vocal is centered around the C chord, which is what keeps its tonality ambiguous, lacking resolution; every time you think it's in C, that D chord appears, pulling the tonality to G.

Before I present my results in full (for comparison with stanron's), here's how I generally transcribe songs - as that was what you were asking - with particular reference to this one of course.

1. Fire up my copy of Transcribe and record the audio in realtime. (I could download an MP3, but prefer this more old-fashioned method...) http://www.seventhstring.com/
With something as superficially simple as this tune, I perhaps ought to be able to do it without assistance, but I like to be as sure as I can as soon as I can.

2. Attempt to find the chord(s) in the intro, if necessary by looping a selection from the waveform.
In this case, the track needed tuning; it's slightly sharp of concert. That made it particularly hard to find notes by playing along - without retuning my guitar, that is.
Tuning (and a little looping) helped me confirm the opening chords are an alternating G and C. (Transcribe also displays frequency peaks against a piano keyboard, enabling me to read off the pitches making up the chord, if I need to. Sometimes that helps, although in this case it just confirmed what I found by playing along.)
The rhythmic feel is deceptive; when her vocal comes in, she's clearly feeling the beat in a different place from where I'm hearing it in the intro.

3. If I was learning this song as a whole, to keep, I would start notating the vocal line. That means opening up my notation software. (I haven't notated with pencil and paper for years...)
This is partly for its own sake - because of course the vocal line IS the "song" - but also to help confirm the chords. The vocal (at least in a song like this) will almost always be following chord tones.
Eg, in the first bar here she is singing a long E ("king") and a G ("had"), 2 chord tones of the C chord. I found those notes by hunting around on guitar - took a couple of seconds at most.

4. For a stereo track, I might also choose the "karaoke" option on Transcribe, which removes anything panned centre - typically the vocals, allowing me to hear the guitar (or whatever) better. In this case, I found a stereo recording elsewhere and worked with that.
Again, this track is simple enough not to have to do that, but it still makes for a useful confirmation.

5. With more complex tracks, I might use Transcribe's slowdown option, but I didn't need it in this case. The melody is strong and simple, and the chords are straightforward (just that sus4 on the D complicating things a little).

Anyway, here's how I hear it (I think stanron had a typo or two ):

|C  /  /  /  |  /  /  /  / |G /  /  /  / |Dsus4 / / / | / / / D |
 king    has  been       a  pri   –  so - ner            and  a
 
|C  /  /  /  | /  /  / D |  C /  /  G | C  /  / G |
 pri - so-ner  long   in   Spain               and
 
|C  /  /  /  | /  /  /  /  | G  /  /  / | /  /  /  /  |
 Wi -    llie of       the  Wins - bu-ry      has lain
 
|C  /   /   /  | G  /  /  / |C / / / | / / / / ||
 long with his  daugh-ter at hame          What (ails thee...

As I say, the key is ambiguous, because the chords tend to make G sound like the key chord, despite the preponderance of the C chord. The verse ends on C, but she sings an E. So even if we say the key is C, it doesn't sound resolved at the end. (Maybe we should say it's in C lydian mode???)

If you go to the very end of the track, you find the outro ends on a G chord, so I'm guessing she'd have regarded that as the key, if indeed she cared .
Of course, we don't have to care either what key it's in. We only need to know the chords and the tune.

[indigomist]

Originally Posted by stanron

I've just consulted the memory vaults and realised that it ends on chord IV as well so it's not surprising that it is tricky. I have yet to check if my chords are significantly different to hers but I can get through it using I, IV, V and vi. Cheers.

Hi stanron. I don't know much about musical theory, so I don't really know what chord IV, V etc are... I should try to learn more theory... thanks for your help btw

Originally Posted by JonPR

Ah, Anne Briggs! I'm with stanron here - not exactly an under-rated singer (either then or now) by anyone who knew or heard her, but certainly didn't achieve the wider recognition and success she deserved back in the day. (Partly down to her own dislike of the spotlight.)

Anyway, this tune does present a few (minor) problems:
1. no bass line (as you say);
2. on bouzouki (or something) not guitar - leading to some ambiguous or partial chord forms;
3. slightly out of tune with concert;
4. melody never resolves to the tonic of the key (which is debatable anyway.

Anyway I pretty much agree with stanron's results. Notice the three chords are C, G and D, suggesting key of G, but most of the vocal is centered around the C chord, which is what keeps its tonality ambiguous, lacking resolution; every time you think it's in C, that D chord appears, pulling the tonality to G.

Before I present my results in full (for comparison with stanron's), here's how I generally transcribe songs - as that was what you were asking - with particular reference to this one of course.

1. Fire up my copy of Transcribe and record the audio in realtime. (I could download an MP3, but prefer this more old-fashioned method...) http://www.seventhstring.com/
With something as superficially simple as this tune, I perhaps ought to be able to do it without assistance, but I like to be as sure as I can as soon as I can.

2. Attempt to find the chord(s) in the intro, if necessary by looping a selection from the waveform.
In this case, the track needed tuning; it's slightly sharp of concert. That made it particularly hard to find notes by playing along - without retuning my guitar, that is.
Tuning (and a little looping) helped me confirm the opening chords are an alternating G and C. (Transcribe also displays frequency peaks against a piano keyboard, enabling me to read off the pitches making up the chord, if I need to. Sometimes that helps, although in this case it just confirmed what I found by playing along.)
The rhythmic feel is deceptive; when her vocal comes in, she's clearly feeling the beat in a different place from where I'm hearing it in the intro.

3. If I was learning this song as a whole, to keep, I would start notating the vocal line. That means opening up my notation software. (I haven't notated with pencil and paper for years...)
This is partly for its own sake - because of course the vocal line IS the "song" - but also to help confirm the chords. The vocal (at least in a song like this) will almost always be following chord tones.
Eg, in the first bar here she is singing a long E ("king") and a G ("had"), 2 chord tones of the C chord. I found those notes by hunting around on guitar - took a couple of seconds at most.

4. For a stereo track, I might also choose the "karaoke" option on Transcribe, which removes anything panned centre - typically the vocals, allowing me to hear the guitar (or whatever) better. In this case, I found a stereo recording elsewhere and worked with that.
Again, this track is simple enough not to have to do that, but it still makes for a useful confirmation.

5. With more complex tracks, I might use Transcribe's slowdown option, but I didn't need it in this case. The melody is strong and simple, and the chords are straightforward (just that sus4 on the D complicating things a little).

Anyway, here's how I hear it (I think stanron had a typo or two ):

|C  /  /  /  |  /  /  /  / |G /  /  /  / |Dsus4 / / / | / / / D |
 king    has  been       a  pri   –  so - ner            and  a
 
|C  /  /  /  | /  /  / D |  C /  /  G | C  /  / G |
 pri - so-ner  long   in   Spain               and
 
|C  /  /  /  | /  /  /  /  | G  /  /  / | /  /  /  /  |
 Wi -    llie of       the  Wins - bu-ry      has lain
 
|C  /   /   /  | G  /  /  / |C / / / | / / / / ||
 long with his  daugh-ter at hame          What (ails thee...

As I say, the key is ambiguous, because the chords tend to make G sound like the key chord, despite the preponderance of the C chord. The verse ends on C, but she sings an E. So even if we say the key is C, it doesn't sound resolved at the end. (Maybe we should say it's in C lydian mode???)

If you go to the very end of the track, you find the outro ends on a G chord, so I'm guessing she'd have regarded that as the key, if indeed she cared .
Of course, we don't have to care either what key it's in. We only need to know the chords and the tune.

Thanks a lot, as usual (hehe). I have downloaded Transcribe and I'm playing around with it.

Reading what all of you have written has shown me I have a lot to learn...

It's annoying as I can't seem to be able to recreate the sound of track on my guitar. Playing on capo 7 seems to help a bit, haha... I just love the sound of those strings.

Is the intro to the song G > C? edit: Throughout the song there's like a sliding bit in the intro... can't work it out!

Originally Posted by stanron

The bouzouki tuning was something like GDGD or GAGA possibly capoed up from lower notes.

Some of the D chords are just Ds so they could be D or G. You decide. It was all a long long time ago.

Ahhh I see. The intro is probably playing from open strings then onto C?

[stanron]

Try

XXX533

or

XXX033

and hammer on to

XXX553

for the intro.

An open tuning high up the neck might get closer to the sound but for normal tuning try

XXX033 for G
XXX553 for C
XXX233 for Dsus4
XXX535 for D7

Not using the bass strings is one way of getting that sparse sound.

[indigomist]

Originally Posted by stanron

Try

XXX533

or

XXX033

and hammer on to

XXX553

for the intro.

An open tuning high up the neck might get closer to the sound but for normal tuning try

XXX033 for G
XXX553 for C
XXX233 for Dsus4
XXX535 for D7

Not using the bass strings is one way of getting that sparse sound.

Ahhh yeah very good idea of not using the bass strings, it never even occured to me. Would tuning down the 3rd string D down to C help if you were to strum the 4 strings instead of 3?

Also is it just knowledge with the alternate G/C/D chords?

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by indigomist

Ahhh yeah very good idea of not using the bass strings, it never even occured to me. Would tuning down the 3rd string D down to C help if you were to strum the 4 strings instead of 3?

Stanron's suggested the shapes I've been experimenting with, but I also got close to the sound by tuning top E down to D and capo on 5.

Then (avoiding bass strings) you get the C chord as x-x-(0)-0-0-0; G5 (no 3rd) as x-x-0-2-3-0, Dsus4 as x-0-2-2-3-2, and D as x-0-2-2-2-2.

But personally I wouldn't struggle with trying to emulate a bouzouki. I'd either use a bouzouki - or maybe a mandolin (seeing as I have one of those bt not a bouzouki ) - or just work out an alternative guitar arrangement - maybe with a high capo position if I wanted to keep the high sound, although IMO that suits her voice better than it would mine (which would be an octave lower). I don't see any real advantage in avoiding bass strings: if you've got em, use em!

Originally Posted by indigomist

Also is it just knowledge with the alternate G/C/D chords?

Not sure what you mean here

[indigomist]

Originally Posted by JonPR

Stanron's suggested the shapes I've been experimenting with, but I also got close to the sound by tuning top E down to D and capo on 5.

Then (avoiding bass strings) you get the C chord as x-x-(0)-0-0-0; G5 (no 3rd) as x-x-0-2-3-0, Dsus4 as x-0-2-2-3-2, and D as x-0-2-2-2-2.

But personally I wouldn't struggle with trying to emulate a bouzouki. I'd either use a bouzouki - or maybe a mandolin (seeing as I have one of those bt not a bouzouki ) - or just work out an alternative guitar arrangement - maybe with a high capo position if I wanted to keep the high sound, although IMO that suits her voice better than it would mine (which would be an octave lower). I don't see any real advantage in avoiding bass strings: if you've got em, use em!

I'll try it out, cheers! I want to buy a mandolin/banjo... but being a poor student means I can't

Originally Posted by JonPR

Not sure what you mean here

Sorry, I mean, how do you come up with the different arrangements for C and G etc.

[stanron]

If you really want to go down the retuning route try tuning your G string down to E and your D string down to B and then capo at the third fret.

You can get a G on the open strings, a C by holding second and fourth strings at the second fret

(X X) 2 0 2 0

and a sort of D holding strings 1 and three at the second fret.

(X X) 0 2 0 2

The intro is open strings to (X X) 2 0 2 0 or maybe just hammer on at the second fret second string.

[stanron]

Originally Posted by indigomist

Sorry, I mean, how do you come up with the different arrangements for C and G etc.

Are you asking how we know the different ways of playing the chords such as G and C on guitar? Like JonPR, I don't really 'get' the question.

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by indigomist

Sorry, I mean, how do you come up with the different arrangements for C and G etc.

You mean different shapes? You need to know where the notes are!