Thinking outside the box. Any experience using a TC helicon acoustic Play for...

Mischief · #1 08-01-2015, 10:38 PM

Sorry about the title. It's supposed to say for Guitar DI Not for Gu.....
I'm using Tapatalk and I can't seem to edit the title.

Oh no it's me again.
Thanks for all your patience as I look for solutions on getting set up to gig.

Hi I have a recently installed a Lyric in a small parlor #2 size. I would like to boost a little base and tame a few frequencies. Obviously there's the main DI solutions.
In the spirit of minimizing things I thought the acoustic play may have enough EQ power and guitar solutions to take care of that. I could then forego my FX mixer and use the Acoustic play for my vocal reverb effects etc. this would give me a floor tuner a looper and as a bonus some subtle harmonies all in one box.
Does anyone have experience using the Acoustic Play as a DI for the guitar?

Thanks very much

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Marty C · #2 08-02-2015, 07:56 AM

Yes, Mischief, I use the Play Acoustic as DI. I set up "stereo out" and run everything to the board to two channels. I pan one channel left and the other right. Good stereo signal for the spatial vocals (reverb and delay). I EQ the board for my vocal and EQ the guitar on the PLay Acoustic.

I have two guitars. My Play Acoustic is set for my Martin d-16 with K & K mini. My second guitar is a Martin 000-X1AE (has Fishman active under saddle). For this I place a LR Baggs Para DI between the guitar and the Play Acoustic. This allows me to EQ the guitar without changing my set-up in the Play Acoustic (which is set for the Martin D-16 with K & K).

Normally use my own PA (old Fender Passport) so my guitar sound is consistent. If I played out often and had to connect to a house PA, I would use the para DI for both guitars so I could do some last minutes EQ on both guitars.

dpeurach · #3 08-02-2015, 09:37 AM

In my experience, the Play Acoustic is terrific with the Lyric.

The Play Acoustic provides a full array of tone shaping tools. Your best bet is to download the instruction manual (available online as a PDF) and review it.

The Play Acoustic provides bass and treble, two bands of parametric EQ, BodyRez (which includes compression), a low cut filter, a notch filter, and more. The unit has two modes of operation: a standard mode with five presets for all of the preceding, and an advanced mode in which the user has full control of the unit.

Oh, and it also has very nice reverb and chorus options, plus a useful tuner.

Again, the Play Acoustic paired very well with my Lyric -- a terrific combination.

That said, I ended up picking up a Session DI and selling the Play Acoustic. The Session DI also complements the Lyric very nicely. Both units add depth/warmth while also cleaning things up a bit. However, I found the Session Di to be more simple and straightforward to use (something that I value quite a bit). While the Play Acoustic is not at all difficult to use, I simply prefer the "two knob" approach of the Session DI.

If at all possible, you might try comparing these two units (and the new BodyRez unit from TC) to see which provide the most satisfying results.

Hope this helps,

Don

SpruceTop · #4 08-03-2015, 07:43 AM

Body Rez is one of the tone-shaping features of The TC Helicon Play Acoustic. The Play Acoustic sure seems like a very useful tool for vocals and acoustic guitar and a bargain at $299, and less if an available discount coupon or promotion is available from the dealer or TC Helicon. Given the value of this device, the TC Helicon Play Acoustic would be my first choice in an outboard solo-performance tool for acoustic guitar and vocals.

Pegleg · #5 08-04-2015, 07:24 PM

So, aside from the looper, what would one expect to gain if they were already using a Helicon Harmony G-XT for vocals and a Fishman Platinum Pro analog DI for guitar? Opinions?

Marty C · #6 08-05-2015, 04:04 AM

1. More vocal effects and more vocal presets. There are some additional options for vocals that help thicken the voice. Really helps me a lot. I don't have a ton of various presets (I probably use no more than the 10 available on your G-XT).
2. Good guitar effects of Hall of Fame Reverb and Corona Chorus. While these are global effects (means not storable on the presets) they can be turned off and on with additional footswitches.
3. Plus, all in one box.
4. Don't know much about your Fishamn unit, but the Bodyrez adds a lot to my acoustic.
5. Headphone out. I use this for practice at home.
6. Aux input to add some backing tracks (I use them to practice or learn a new song).

If you want to save guitar AND vocal presets, you might want to try the Play Electric or the Play GTX. You could also add your Fishman Unit (between guitar and whichever play unit you would chose) for additional guitar EQ.

I have the Harmony G-XT and loved it, until I bought a Play GTX. Liked this since I could save guitar effects. I really loved the GTX, until I bought the Play Acoustic. I like this since the Bodyrez did a great job with my guitar sound. I guess I am a gear junky.

Hope this helps.

Pegleg · #7 08-05-2015, 07:31 AM

It does help Marty, thanks for taking the time. Of the "list", the headphones out would be the only one I think would be additive for my purposes. I only use two presets on the G-XT, basically reverb and echo and, echo is rarely used. So, more likely wouldn't get used. As far as the guitar is concerned, I actually use a "dummy plug" on the G-XT out so as to not "color" the guitar. Yeah, I know, "my guitar, only louder" does not exist; when you run your acoustic through a plug, it's colored to some extent. But, I want to minimize that as much as is possible. I think the Fishman does a good job for what I'm trying to do. As far as backing tracks are concerned, I know they can add a lot to the live sound of a performer, I've experienced it in the audience. I suspect most folks in the audience could give a hoot less, but when I go to hear live music, that is what I want, not recorded. Not that I'm critical, I know how hard it is to do, I just really enjoy truly "live" music. You can buy a lot of strings, picks, etc. for $299 so, I think I'll stick with what I've got for now. I'm a gear junky too, but you gotta quit sometime!

Mischief · #8 08-05-2015, 05:40 PM

Yeah it's a shame the Acoustic play does not allow presets for the guitar sounds.

I am more interested in getting a good sound out of my Lyric. Since the lyric can require lots of EQ I was a bit concerned whether the play would have enough EQ power to do this.

I have heard now a couple positive reports using the Play and Lyric together. I'm not sure how it colors the sound using body Rez etc. I'm led to believe the Body Rez just EQ compression reverb etc.

Do any of you guys that use a Play have any experience with a DI like the venue? If so how do they compare in guitar sound?

I picked the Lyric for that mic'd sound, if the output with the Play, is that of a quality mic'd guitar and somewhat like my actual guitar I'd be okay with that. If it sounded very much like my Guitar with the ability to boost the base a wee bit (being my guitar is a small parlor) I'd be very happy that way too.

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Marty C · #9 08-05-2015, 07:25 PM

Mischief,
I currently have a LR Baggs Para DI. I use it only with the Fishman under saddle. I also have a K & K and tried the Para DI and hated the way it sounded. I have seen on other post that there is an impedence mismatch. The Play units have a direct match, but can't remember what it is. Anyway, it sounds better and I didn't have to do a bunch of tweaking.

Don't know much about your lyric but heard great things. I always believe the best pickup works best with the same manufacturers DI boxes. That's the way I would design it. I would create one specifically for the other.

lschwart · #10 08-05-2015, 07:41 PM

For what it's worth, I was just browsing through the Play Acoustic manual, which you can access on the TC Helicon website, and it looks like in "advanced" mode, you can adjust the EQ in the body res function pretty admirably. You get two shelving EQs (high and low, both with adjustable shelving points), plus two more fully fully parametric bands. I imagine that should give you what you need.

Louis

davidguevara80 · #11 11-12-2015, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dpeurach

In my experience, the Play Acoustic is terrific with the Lyric.

The Play Acoustic provides a full array of tone shaping tools. Your best bet is to download the instruction manual (available online as a PDF) and review it.

The Play Acoustic provides bass and treble, two bands of parametric EQ, BodyRez (which includes compression), a low cut filter, a notch filter, and more. The unit has two modes of operation: a standard mode with five presets for all of the preceding, and an advanced mode in which the user has full control of the unit.

Oh, and it also has very nice reverb and chorus options, plus a useful tuner.

Again, the Play Acoustic paired very well with my Lyric -- a terrific combination.

That said, I ended up picking up a Session DI and selling the Play Acoustic. The Session DI also complements the Lyric very nicely. Both units add depth/warmth while also cleaning things up a bit. However, I found the Session Di to be more simple and straightforward to use (something that I value quite a bit). While the Play Acoustic is not at all difficult to use, I simply prefer the "two knob" approach of the Session DI.

If at all possible, you might try comparing these two units (and the new BodyRez unit from TC) to see which provide the most satisfying results.

Hope this helps,

Don

Hey there,

I am a Lyric/Play acoustic user. I am very happy with the Vocal side. But my guitar sounds too boxy. Do you remember which preset from bodyRez you used? Thanks!

Dave

Mischief · #12 11-12-2015, 04:23 PM

Hi Dave,
I should have checked back in in this thread.
I ended up buying the acoustic play and am happy with the results. I did however have to make some dramatic changes in the advanced settings.

I will note that my set up is for a small parlor guitar equal to a size #2.

I had written a few threads regarding the Lyric in this guitar and some bad frequencies that I wanted to tame. In the end the acoustic play tamed the frequencies. I highly doubt though my settings would be any good to you as they were for my specific needs.

In the end the settings I made generally were mid frequency cuts high low pass settings. Most of my settings were more extreme then I anticipated but they work for me.

After sweeping dozens of times and making my adjustments by ear I decided to use a sound analyzer on the guitar. I downloaded several analyzes and checked them on the guitar acoustically. What I di overhead with my guitar was those frequencies I was struggling with were prominent acoustically. So it seemed these sounds were just brought way to the front with the lyric.
The final result I feel sounds very natural and is a good representation of my actual guitar.

I also agree with Don to use a simple approach. I had thought the Vocal side of the play would add something I needed when set subtly. In reality I don't need it and don't like anything but the same settings if use out of my desk. Bit of reverb and delay or room simulation. I am pleased with settings that I have and I could probably use just my guitar, mic, acoustic play and powered speaker. However I would bring my little mixer anyway as its a backup and allows me to hook up my foot stomp and add a mic. So in the end it does the job and I'm happy and it works good for me. I really think though unless someone has the same set up guitar etc their settings probably won't be much good.

I hope that helps.
One final thought. I'm happy with my choices and would probably make the same ones again.
Cheers

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dpeurach · #13 11-13-2015, 09:35 AM

Dave,

In response to your question:

I first adjusted the presence screw to get the best tone possible without the Play Acoustic. (In my particular case, I am able to get a perfectly usable tone from the Lyric by doing just this.)

With the Play Acoustic, I found myself primarily using the first BodyRez setting. This gave me a big, warm tone that I really liked. Using the para EQ under the advanced settings, cuts between 650-700 and 950-1000 (if I remember right) made marginal improvements, but not so much that it was worth the bother (given my preference for keeping it simple).

When playing with others, I remember the third BodyRez setting "tightening things up" and providing more presence. So, this worked as an additional viable option.

The second, fourth, and fifth settings didn't work well for me.

Hope this helps!

Don

davidguevara80 · #14 11-13-2015, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dpeurach

Dave,

In response to your question:

I first adjusted the presence screw to get the best tone possible without the Play Acoustic. (In my particular case, I am able to get a perfectly usable tone from the Lyric by doing just this.)

With the Play Acoustic, I found myself primarily using the first BodyRez setting. This gave me a big, warm tone that I really liked. Using the para EQ under the advanced settings, cuts between 650-700 and 950-1000 (if I remember right) made marginal improvements, but not so much that it was worth the bother (given my preference for keeping it simple).

When playing with others, I remember the third BodyRez setting "tightening things up" and providing more presence. So, this worked as an additional viable option.

The second, fourth, and fifth settings didn't work well for me.

Hope this helps!

Don

That helps a lot!! I think that I have been making this too complated thatn really is. I used one of the BodyRez presets (don't recall it was 2 or 3) and it sounded really good. I listened the recording on my way back home and it is getting close to what I want. I will readjust the presence screw to get a better tone.

I forgot to mention that I have the lyric instaled in both of my guitars: Gibson J150 and a Hummingbird. The Hummingbird sounds good with everything (even the Baggs element) and all of the additions just make it sound even better. The J150 has been hard to make it sound good amplified. I love the unplugged sound of it, and the fact that it handles my hard strumming really well.