High End Pickup?

[drive-south]

I checked Schertler's site and got some info on the DYN-G. It is a contact pickup that attached to the top of the guitar, with a balanced XLR output.
I checked on EBAY, and one dealer is selling a new pickup for $500. I'm not sure if that is an average price, high/low?

I'm also not sure how easily/quickly you can move the pickup from one guitar to the next while performing on stage.

I'd love to hear one though! It appears to be a modern verison of the old Frap pickup.

[open-road-matt]

Doug,
Thanks for the info on the ES through the Pendulum. I may mess around with that a bit more. I have the Pickup/Pickup Module so I'm curious to hear, at least through the headphones how that sounds.

The Dyn-G:

The Dyn-G is a circular transducer somewhere between the size of a quarter and a 50 cent piece. As drive-south mentioned, it is attached to the top of the guitar or the bridge (my favorite) using some weird green putty. You roll out a little snake of this putty, put it around the transducer and stick it to your guitar.

I roll the putty right out on the soundboard of my guitar. I never use more than one guitar during a show but I would imagine, with a little practice you could move it from one guitar to another pretty quickly. My only complaint with this pickup is when you go to pull it off of the guitar you often end up with some putty stuck to the guitar and some stuck to the pickup. That takes just a couple of seconds to clean up but it might annoy me if I was moving it back and forth to different guitars several times a show.

The price of $500 is about right I think I paid $495 at the Podium in Minneapolis. If I remember right, I saw it for less on line but I didn't want to buy it without hearing it.

Finding the sweet spot on your guitar is the absolute key to making this pickup work. The first time I tried it out I stuck it to the sound board and it sounded awful. I thought, "good, I just saved myself $500!" But I got lucky on my second try. I stuck it to the bridge and it was fantastic! You hear people say this a lot and it was true in this case, it sounded just like my guitar but louder. I bought it and headed directly to a show. I stuck it on the bridge again but missed the sweet spot and it didn't really sound that great.

When I got done, I followed the directions. I used headphones and my Pendulum and kept moving it around until I found "the spot" on that particular guitar. To me it sounds like I've got a mic on the guitar but I can move around and it won't feed back. You can end up with some low end troubles if you really crank it but I used it as a third source all summer with great results!

Matt

P.S. here is a video of someone rolling out the putty and attaching the Dyn-G. IMO he uses too much putty and I have found that Schertler's recommended amount of the size of a pencil eraser is better:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9TyAoEG52Y

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by drive-south

I'd love to hear one though! It appears to be a modern verison of the old Frap pickup.

No, it's not a Frap-style pickup at all. The closest thing to a modern Frap is the Trance Audio (made by a guy who worked at Frap), and other SBTs like K&K, Schatten, iBeam, are all modern successors to the Frap at least in spirit. The Dyn-G is basically a contact mic. You can hear recorded samples of of it on my site:

http://www.dougyoungguitar.com/pickuptest.htm Be sure to check out the EQ'd examples as well as the dry direct versions.

or Doug Kennedy's recordings and demos at http://www.fingerpickup.com

The DynG can sound very good, but it requires a lot of EQ, careful placement, and the installation doesn't lend itself to careless handling. Feedback is also a likely issue unless you play pretty softly. Some classical players really like the DynG ad it probably works best in that sort of setting.

[guitaniac]

Its interesting to me that Schertler now sells guitars, designed by Swiss luthier Claudio Pagelli, which utilize a dual source Blue Stick/D-Dyn system. One must presume that the guitars were designed with those specific pickups in mind, and that the D-Dyn placement has been carefully worked out for optimum performance. (I'm assuming that the D-Dyn is some variation of the Dyn-G which is being discussed here.)

It should also be mentioned that Doug reviewed the Schertler SB for the October 2008 issue of Acoustic Guitar, and did the video review which AG mag subscribers can access at the AG mag website. (I'm presuming that Doug hasn't mentioned this himself because it might be construed as unseemly self-promotion or promotion of his employer, AG mag.) I'm thinking that the video might be of interest to folks who're curious about the Dyn-G (and how it sounds in contrast to the Blue Stick). I certainly found it to be worthy of my own interest.

Gary

[66strummer]

Thanks for all of your input, Folks. Lots to check out....

[open-road-matt]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

The DynG can sound very good, but it requires a lot of EQ, careful placement, and the installation doesn't lend itself to careless handling. Feedback is also a likely issue unless you play pretty softly. Some classical players really like the DynG ad it probably works best in that sort of setting.

This might be the case using the Dyn-G as a single source. But I found, while using the Dyn-G as an additional source, that once I got my sweet spot and set my EQ (channel 2 on Pendulum SPS-1) set it was very easy to get the pickup installed and sounding great from show to show.

Feedback is also much less of an issue if one is considering the Dyn-G as a second or third source. It could really round out the tone of a guitar with a UST or a mag and you can still really push some volume without feedback.

Matt

[guitaniac]

Originally Posted by open-road-matt

Feedback is also much less of an issue if one is considering the Dyn-G as a second or third source. It could really round out the tone of a guitar with a UST or a mag and you can still really push some volume without feedback.

Matt

Regarding solo use of the Dyn pickup, I suspect that its high gain capability might be fairly decent with a small-bodied guitar (like the Schertler SB) which was designed with amplification in mind. When someone is willing to spend $1000 on electronics alone, it isn't much of a leap to a dedicated stage guitar like the SB.

Its also interesting to note that the Yamaha APX900 and CPX900 stage guitars, with their recently developed ART (Acoustic Resonance Transducer) electronics can be found for well under $1000. I recall that Michael Millham's AG mag review of the CPX900 was very complimentary, especially with regard to the electronics. The "ART" system in the 900 models is a highly evolved soundboard pickup system which is surprisingly feedback resistent. (In one of our online discussions, Michael opined that the ART system is at least as feedback resistant as a multi-directional sensing UST like the Baggs Element.) As with the Schertler SB (and the Taylor ES, for that matter), its easier to get consistently good results with soundboard pickups when the placement (for a particular model) has been carefully worked out by the manufacturer. Its also helpful when the guitar was designed with amplified use being the main objective, or at least a high priority.

Gary

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by open-road-matt

T
Feedback is also much less of an issue if one is considering the Dyn-G as a second or third source.
Matt

Of course. It really *is* a mic, so if you treat it as one, blending it in with other sources, it will work much the same as a mic, adding a little touch of realism. As Gary points out, this is exactly what Schertler themselves did with it on their guitars. As away to liven up the bluestick, it worked very well. On the other hand, you're starting to get into a fairly complex setup if you have to have 1 or two other pickups on a guitar, and then also stick on an external contact pickup to the body and blend it in too. It's nice that the Schertler guitar setup has it mounted internally and integrated with the electronics.

On my guitars, the Dyn-G required so much EQ as to not be terribly practical as a single source (and check out Doug Kennedy's EQ discussion about it), but I have a friend who uses it flat on a classical and gets a great sound with just the DynG. So it's likely very guitar dependent. Like all pickups, it's a perfect fit for some, less so for others.

[open-road-matt]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Of course. It really *is* a mic, so if you treat it as one, blending it in with other sources, it will work much the same as a mic, adding a little touch of realism.

That is why I like this pickup so much. I play through the Bose L1 and I've never been able to blend much at all, if any external mic into my set up without feedback. The Dyn-G allows me that touch of "realism" (I like that term!) without worrying about a hot mic in front of my L1.

Originally Posted by Doug Young

On the other hand, you're starting to get into a fairly complex setup if you have to have 1 or two other pickups on a guitar, and then also stick on an external contact pickup to the body and blend it in too.

This is my current battle, tone vs. simplicity. I use the Dyn-G with my Goodall Concert Jumbo. My CJ has a Sunrise/K&K and blend those mono into channel 1 of my SPS-1 and then send the Dyn-G to channel 2. It's a great sound but it's a lot of packing and unpacking, plugging and unplugging, etc. for each show.

Originally Posted by guitaniac

As with the Schertler SB (and the Taylor ES, for that matter), its easier to get consistently good results with soundboard pickups when the placement (for a particular model) has been carefully worked out by the manufacturer. Its also helpful when the guitar was designed with amplified use being the main objective, or at least a high priority.

Gary

I think you are right Gary! That is why I've been going to my Taylor ES guitar lately. It doesn't sound as good as the Goodall with all the sources but 1) it plugs right in and 2) because Taylor set it up I'm much more apt to accept it as is and not think of new and expensive ways to tinker with its tone! The Schertler guitars would be fun to try!

Matt

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by open-road-matt

My CJ has a Sunrise/K&K and blend those mono into channel 1 of my SPS-1 and then send the Dyn-G to channel 2. It's a great sound but it's a lot of packing and unpacking, plugging and unplugging, etc. for each show.

My setup ends up being similar, but I use a K&K with a Duncan MagMic which sounds a lot like the Sunrise to me, and has a mic built in. This also gives me three sources, which I blend with the SPS1. You're giving up separate EQ on the Sunrise/K&K combo, I've giving up separate EQ on the mag/mic combo, tho the MagMic's mic is already internally EQd to some extend to just add air.

[TroyMidnight]

hello there. I know you must like whatever guitar you're playing and I am in no way saying that you shouldn't play the guitar you're playing. All I'm saying is that as far as preamps go there are no pick ups/preamps better then the Takamine CoolTube 2 or 3. They sound incredible. They're warm they are reliable the only problem is that you would have to play a Takamine. I know a lot of people are dead set against Takamine's but I've been playing them since middle 80's and I have never ever been let down. I used to play on an average of 5 to 9 gigs a week. Then the CoollTube preamp came out and my onstage life changed. Oh my God it's warm it's accurate it's powerful it's just the plain old best ever but that's in my opinion. I'm sure everybody has their opinion out there And there are a lot of people that say Takamine Stinks. There are a lot of pick ups out there that you can buy that yes are amazing. Right now I play a Takamine TF360SBG with a CoolTube 2 and I find it to be the most amazing guitar I've ever owned. It's got a 1 3/4 inch nut width instead of the usual thinner 1 11/16 nut width. A lot of people find that to be a little thin. Well, I wish you the best in your decision in buying whatever high-end pick up you find. Just keep doing your research. I've actually used an LR baggs I Beam and I liked it very much. It attaches directly under the bridge and gives an accurate sound for about 100+ dollars. Once again good luck to you and I hope that by bringing up the name Takamine I didn't bring up a sore subject. I wish you the best. God bless you. Sincerely, Troy

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by TroyMidnight

hello there.

Hi Troy…

You resurrected a thread from 2008 (that's 7 years ago).