Fingerpicking Conundrum. Is this crazy?

[lar]

So I’m learning a new song on my brand new AJ (Black dog blues by Woody Man) and there are multiple times in the song that you have to fret the top E string using your thumb over the neck on the first fret. This is actually how it is taught by Woody. I find this impossible; my thumb is not that long and pulling on it won’t make it any longer (I’ve tried it – it just hurts).

But I realized that if I simply tune the low E string up to F (a half step), then I can play the string open which is MUCH MUCH easier. This works on this song because that string is only played in F for the entire song (almost).

My question(s):
Is this not ‘proper’? I can’t believe tuning one string a half step up hurts the guitar (I use light strings anyway). Why isn’t it taught this way? What is going on here? Am I out-of-line?

And did I mention my brand new AJ (love love love-it)

Thanks in advance for your input.

[Glennwillow]

Hi Lar,

Generally players avoid tuning a string higher than standard pitch. Could you tune a low E string to an F? Sure you could. I have done it many times by accident when restringing a guitar. But I have not left it at that pitch for very long. Would it hurt your guitar to tune your low E string up to F? If the strings are light gauge, it may not cause any trouble, but I really don't know for certain.

I imagine you will receive some more input on this here.

- Glenn

[cpeehler7]

One string up half a step with light strings? I can't imagine that being any worse than stringing it up with mediums. I've tried doing that same thumb over F chord as well and can only do it on certain guitars. Neck profile has a lot of impact on whether I can do it or not, and even still I'm not great at it. My thumb just doesn't like to reach around that way...

If you're going to tune it up, I don't think it will hurt anything. Just to be safe I'd drop it down after you're done though. It can't take long to tune one string, so it's not a big deal really.

[MBE]

The first rule is that there are no rules. People have used funkier tunings than that.

Tuning one string one half step sharp for the purposes of playing one song will not do any harm to your instrument as long as it hasn't been teetering on the verge of implosion to begin with.

There is, however, merit in practicing new techniques. The thumb over the fretboard is a common technique employed by many. And yet, classical guitarists have gotten by without it for forever. So, only you can decide whether you feel it's worth practicing until you can do it. Will it come in handy? Absolutely. Will you be a useless excuse for a guitarist without it? Nope.

[Fred]

Do some experimenting with your thumb. Determine how LITTLE touching it takes to get the F note. It's not really a "thumb over," but hardly more than the thumb hitting the SIDE of the string. Once you see how little touching it takes, you'll get used to it. Also, the F does not necessarily have to ring "clean..." A muted note fits the alternating bass style of a lot of old blues and ragtime...and certainly would work for Block Dog.

Give it a try. Good luck!

[Halcyon/Tinker]

Indeed. However way you choose to play it is the correct way for you. If you want to tune one string up a half step, no problem. An AJ can handle it for sure.

[Bucc5207]

I'm a big fan of the left thumb. I like improving the odds of fingers vs strings. But I play a Martin with a skinny 1 11/16" neck, and I have pretty good sized hands. If I played a classical guitar, with that giant football field of a fingerboard, thumb wrapping would be awkward.

Could you just play the song in E?

[moominboy]

Originally Posted by MBE

The first rule is that there are no rules. People have used funkier tunings than that.

Tuning one string one half step sharp for the purposes of playing one song will not do any harm to your instrument as long as it hasn't been teetering on the verge of implosion to begin with.

There is, however, merit in practicing new techniques. The thumb over the fretboard is a common technique employed by many. And yet, classical guitarists have gotten by without it for forever. So, only you can decide whether you feel it's worth practicing until you can do it. Will it come in handy? Absolutely. Will you be a useless excuse for a guitarist without it? Nope.

You mean the first rule of THUMB, of course...

Seriously, if I've learned anything playing guitar, it's that there are so few rules. There are of course some worth sticking by, but IMO the absence of too many rules, and people willing to break established rules, is how music and songwriting evolve.

[Toby Walker]

I believe there are certain rules that apply to proper technique in guitar playing but having to use your thumb in this case is not one of them. That being said...

There are certain styles, and that song is among one of them where the benefits of using your thumb will outweigh not using it. If it's the only song that you'll wind up playing that way then do what you need to. But if you're going to play more songs in that style then I'd suggest biting the bullet and learning the technique.

I have small hands and whenever a student or someone in a workshop complains of the same I compare my hands to theirs. I believe that if I could learn that technique than almost anyone else can.

Don't let the idea of something being uncomfortable keep you from doing it.

[rlgph]

On most string sets the 6th string has significantly less tension in standard tuning than the more interior strings (particularly the 3rd & 4th), so there shouldn't be a real probrplem going up a half step -- less of a "problem" than moving from light to bluegrass strings.

[HHP]

There are no rules, but there are good ideas and bad ideas. Tuning up just because you have difficulty with one position is probably in the realm of bad ideas. Have you tried to re-finger with the index? Learn the Barre form of F? Maybe use the F on 3rd fret of D string?

Besides the added tension, tuning up may result in some unpleasant over rings or affect options on other chords you may need to play. It's also a PITA to retune one string for one passage of one song.

Workarounds make sense sometimes for complex problems, but if you start to rely on them for simple problems, you may impede your abilities down the road.

[ukejon]

For inspiration, watch some Tommy Emmanuel vids....he is the thumb monster, often fretting TWO strings with this digit!

[Rickytuk]

You'll come up against the thumb over technique a lot while on your finger picking journey so it's well worth practicing. I do fine the F thumb over quite difficult and usually get by with Fmajor7, thumb over on the thick e-string and just don't pluck the open high E string.

Tuning up can damage your Guitar in the long run and if you keep dropping it down you're stings will go dead a lot quicker.

We've all had that "this is impossible" moment but slow, repetitive practice usually does the trick. If you're hands don't look abnormally small and your thumb is in good proportion to your fingers then it's just practice.

Good luck

Hi Lar,

All of the responses so far are great. Bottom line is that there is no "proper" (using your term) way to get around this problem, there is only an opportunity to be creative. If it was me, I'd stick it out and learn to use the thumb. But tuning up a half-step for a single tune during a set has advantages too - first, it won't hurt the Gibson. Second, it will introduce you to the concept of alternate tunings. Third, it's a great stage presence trick. If you're playing a set and you start (expertly and confidently) cranking the tuning keys, it draws in the room. I have a limited number of songs that use drop D, and if I want to focus the room's attention I crank down the E string and give a strum of that full-sounding D chord - and the room is mine. Works like a charm. Tune a string and they think you're Leo Kottke lol

It's your guitar! Do what works best for you.

BTW: Welcome to AGF!

[Bikewer]

Whatever works. I've been playing for 40 years. I have never been able to use my thumb for fretting. Not that I have tiny hands... Just average, but limited flexibility, I guess.
So... I just don't. I generally barre "F" chords and if there's a note in that form that doesn't work I don't play it....