Hardware Effects in Logic

[Rick Shepherd]

Doug, moon, Joseph,

I did it! You guys are the greatest! OMG, I could just

For some reason, I opened up the I/O utility after reconnecting everything and rebooting, and there were the options I was looking for. The Outputs were listed as I expected they should, as pairs: 1-2, 3-4, etc. software outs. I chose the 3-4 and immediately saw the line level meter display a signal. I brought up the fader and there is was in all its glory. With the way I have my settings, everything makes sense now. I can adjust all the levels to taste. It is simply fantastic. What a monumental feat that was. Thanks for much for sticking with me on this, it paid off!

BTW, I did make sure I saved my settings for the Profire software.

[moon]

That's great

There's one final refinement you can do. The I/O plugin has a latency compensation function. It pings the lexicon then measures how long it takes for the signal to return. Set the Lex to bypass first - you don't want to measure a time-based effect like delay or reverb, just the hardware latency.

Once you've measured the latency, Logic will then hold back all the audio streams by the same amount to allow the return to arrive in sync.

This is kind of optional. The latency should be tiny and I don't think it will matter in practice, particularly for time-based effects like delay and reverb. Still, it's nice that they thought about it. Shows they're making an effort to write good software.

[muscmp]

even tho i'm fairly proficient on logic(for what i do), i must say that i've learned a lot from following this topic!

thanks to rick for starting it and doug, moon and joseph for helping all of us!

play music!

[Rick Shepherd]

I found that my problem was: If you create a send from a mono track, and then Logic creates an Auxiliary Channel automatically, it changes the options available to you when you use the I/O utility. Your choices are: mono and mono->stereo. Then, when you open up the I/O window to select your inputs and outputs, the available options are mono, not stereo. So, I created a new Auxiliary channel from the mixer options drop-down, assigned the bus, inserted the I/O utility, and that presented only the Stereo option for inputing the effects from the Lexicon. Once I did that, the I/O input/output options were what I was looking for.

[Rick Shepherd]

Originally Posted by moon

That's great

There's one final refinement you can do. The I/O plugin has a latency compensation function. It pings the lexicon then measures how long it takes for the signal to return. Set the Lex to bypass first - you don't want to measure a time-based effect like delay or reverb, just the hardware latency.

Once you've measured the latency, Logic will then hold back all the audio streams by the same amount to allow the return to arrive in sync.

This is kind of optional. The latency should be tiny and I don't think it will matter in practice, particularly for time-based effects like delay and reverb. Still, it's nice that they thought about it. Shows they're making an effort to write good software.

Thanks moon! I will do that!

[Rick Shepherd]

Originally Posted by muscmp

even tho i'm fairly proficient on logic(for what i do), i must say that i've learned a lot from following this topic!

thanks to rick for starting it and doug, moon and joseph for helping all of us!

play music!

That makes me feel a little better

I PMed moon, Doug, and Joseph to personally thank them for their assistance. Could not have done this without their help!

Thanks Guys!

[Rick Shepherd]

I haven't applied hardware effects for quite a while. Today, I tried to do this again, but when I bounce the tracks and play the wav file back, it is still dry. Hmmmmm?

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by Rick Shepherd

I haven't applied hardware effects for quite a while. Today, I tried to do this again, but when I bounce the tracks and play the wav file back, it is still dry. Hmmmmm?

Did you check the "real time" option?

[Rick Shepherd]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Did you check the "real time" option?

Doug, thanks! Yes I did.; I even set Logic up the exact same way as the last time it worked, because I used a previously saved file with the settings. So I am wondering if there is something else. I tried enabling the record mode for the tracks, and that didnt work either. Should the tracks be set on solo?

[Doug Young]

Are you hearing the effects on playback? I'd double check all the routing. Make sure the I/O plugin is bring it back in, the track it's on is sending to the stereo bus, etc. Solo can actually mess things up - if you've solo'd some tracks, be sure you've solo'd the effects return as well.

[Rick Shepherd]

Thanks Doug: I opened up an earlier recording that had the correct old settings, bounced the file to mp3 and checked it, and it didn't work, so it must be my Profire 610 software settings. I will have to check that tomorrow. I can hear the effects in the mix, so I am pretty sure the Logic settings are right.

[KevWind]

Since I am strictly a PT user I know little to zip about Logic.
But what little I have seen the GUI in Logic is basically similar. And in general the routing looks simular.

That said just to clarify: First a few quick Questions to see how similar.
In Logic you can create different kinds of Tracks
Audio Tracks, Midi Tracks and Aux input tracks ? PT also has Instrument and Master Fader tracks.

It looks like the Mixer channels or (tracks) are laid out more or less the same, in vertical individual channel strips

For those who may not already know:Even though the I/O is positioned in the middle of the strip itself.
To use Doug's pluming analogy what is really going on is the signal (water) flows from top to bottom of each channel strip.

It comes in the top (I/O Input button) and goes out the bottom (I/O output button) of each channel.

The SENDS are like inserting an upside down y pipe after the inserts, that sends part of the signal down the channel strip to the main mix, and part of the signal to someplace other than the main mix, (I believe Logic by default calls this main mix Stereo Out). The part of the signal that is sent somewhere else is sent via a Bus or (connecting pipe) to some other tracks main I/O Input.

In the case here of a (parallel) reverb fx (to receive signals from multiple tracks but only one reverb) Usually an AUX track is used and set to unity gain or ( 0. db gain) and the amount of reverb effect for each individual track is controlled by the Level applied at the individual tracks Send. On this Aux track (the reverb is usually set to 100%)

So Rick:
You have multiple audio tracks ( we will call Gtr tracks) you wish to add outboard TC reverb to Yes?

And the individual Sends on those Gtr. tracks are all going to the same Bus, but with different individual send levels depending desired amount of Vrb effect per individual track Yes ?

And the main I/O outputs on those individual Gtr tracks are set to the main mix outputs(Stereo Out) not set the Bus Yes ?

The Sends those Gtr. tracks are all routed via the same Bus to an Aux input track, via it's main I/O input ?

The TC reverb is an insert on that Aux track and is via it's Inserts I/O selection option and not the Main channel I/O yes ?

And this AUX tracks main I/O output is set to Stereo Out ?

And this is also how you do it with a plugin verb as well yes?

And with the plugin vrb. you can then hear the effect while monitoring the main mix in the session.
And you can hear the rendered plugin vrb effect if you bounce your main mix to a file and playback that file, Yes?

And you can hear the outboard TC vrb while monitoring the main mix in the session Yes?
But you cannot hear the effect if you bounce the main mix and play back that file ?

If this is the case then I would guess you are correct the problem would seem to be once the signal leaves your DAW and goes out to your interface and TC unit.
And that the Vrb signal is getting to the TC unit but not getting back into your DAWs main mix outputs but instead is somehow getting to your monitoring without going back into the DAW. Just a guess.

[Rick Shepherd]

Thanks for the great post Kev! I will read this very carefully when I have time later. Much appreciated!

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Rick Shepherd

Thanks for the great post Kev! I will read this very carefully when I have time later. Much appreciated!

Rick I am not certain I completely followed all the info on how your system is set up and the all The I/O selections. So take my post with a grain of salt

However if a pic is worth a thousand words, i thought i might post some picks of my mixer and my I/O set up

So this is what part of one of my session templates (Stationary Pad) looks like.

First even though the track is labeled "Ld Gtr Bus" it is in fact an Aux input track, labeled the same as (the Bus) that feeds it, via it's main input.

Ok so I think this is more or less what you are talking about:
The Aux input track labeled "Rm Vrb" ( dark purple) is the one that has the M7 inserted on it . It's main Input is via the "Rm Vrb" bus ( for Room Reverb)

Gtr 3 and 4 tracks , and the Vox Comp track, all are sending to the Rm Vrb track via their sends section and the designated bus labled "Rm Vrb"( and not their main I/O outputs) And at different levels -15.0, -17.2, and -11.1 respectively, via there separate send level faders shown. And the RM Vrb tracks main fader is set and stays @ 0.0

Then if you press on the Rm Vrb tracks insert button you get an I/O dropdown for that insert. I run the M7 via it's AES connections 1-2
The INPUT TAB

The OUTPUT TAB

The AES channels are labeled "AES 1-2 but are in fact channels 5 and 6 on the my Omni interface's connections

The INSERTS TAB

[Joseph Hanna]

Originally Posted by KevWind

Rick I am not certain I completely followed all the info on how your system is set up and the all The I/O selections. So take my post with a grain of salt

However if a pic is worth a thousand words, i thought i might post some picks of my mixer and my I/O set up

So this is what part of one of my session templates (Stationary Pad) looks like.

First even though the track is labeled "Ld Gtr Bus" it is in fact an Aux input track, labeled the same as (the Bus) that feeds it, via it's main input.

Ok so I think this is more or less what you are talking about:
The Aux input track labeled "Rm Vrb" ( dark purple) is the one that has the M7 inserted on it . It's main Input is via the "Rm Vrb" bus ( for Room Reverb)

Gtr 3 and 4 tracks , and the Vox Comp track, all are sending to the Rm Vrb track via their sends section and the designated bus labled "Rm Vrb"( and not their main I/O outputs) And at different levels -15.0, -17.2, and -11.1 respectively, via there separate send level faders shown. And the RM Vrb tracks main fader is set and stays @ 0.0

Then if you press on the Rm Vrb tracks insert button you get an I/O dropdown for that insert. I run the M7 via it's AES connections 1-2
The INPUT TAB

The OUTPUT TAB

The AES channels are labeled "AES 1-2 but are in fact channels 5 and 6 on the my Omni interface's connections

The INSERTS TAB

Yea Kev Logic in many ways is similar to Pro Tools in how it handles both aux send and returns and external effects. There are some slight differences. Logic requires a "plug-in" to interface with external devices. That of course somewhat different than Pro Tools which requires an i/o to be instantiated on an insert. The Logic i/o plug-in however, once instantiated, acts very similar to Pro Tools i/o.

I think however we've established this with Rick and he (at least in the not to distant past) got that concept under control. If I had to bet, I'd put my money on the somewhat (and the word "somewhat" is being kind) convoluted interim software the Pro-Fire interface uses to interface with Logic.

Rick.....as we discussed before this Pro-Fire software is JUST NOT necessary (especially with the remarkable low latency of Logic). If it were me, and I know it's not , I uninstall it, take the disk out back to the bonfire and.............burn it

Just my two cents