Any thoughts on going to a Mac baseed recording studio?

[makikogi]

I don't know why in the world pro tools is the industry standard. Unless you have the $xx,xxx setup you can't even get 96 tracks that all other daw softwares gives you for free. You need a ton of RAM otherwise it'll crash on you at startup...with that said, I have a imac with pro tools le, digi002 interface, 4 gigs of RAM, and wouldn't use any other software out there (mainly cause I don't want to go through the learning curve) but it's super powerful once you have everything to spec and have gotten a hold of how to operate it.

All DAW software come with a pretty steep learning curve so keep at it and stay the course. Everytime I say this I always get someone firing back at me, so I'll say this with a qualification....garageband should be called garbageband, IMHO it stinks. It can't do half the things that pro tools, sonar, logic, abelton, digital performer (berkley school of music folks use this btw with their mandatory macbook pro labtop), etc... can. Ok here's the qualification...if all you want to do is record, than garbageband works fine. Send it off to the studio to be edited, mixed and mastered and you won't be able to hear a single difference between GB or PT, DP whatever. But if you want to take a stab at editing, mastering than definitely look into the other DAW's.

[biggs2]

Mark, I wish I had your skills at editing and mastering. I'm sure I would really like PT if I did. But, sadly, I don't. While I've been playing guitar for over 45 years, I'm still a novice at home recording. Garageband will probably work fine for me for a while. When it now longer meets my needs, I'll look at other software...PT or Logic or whatever is popular at the time.

[Sprikitik]

Garageband is more than fine for recording. And it comes free with the computer. Easy editing, great sound quality, comes with all the necessary stuff like compression, effects, EQ. At this point I gather that you're not looking for Pro level stuff.

I've also had great success with my Rode mic paired with an M-Audio USB Mic Pre.

Ditto, on the Macbook Pro.

[Pete on guitar]

If you're just dabbling, remember you don't NEED a dedicated audio interface for audio input; you can just plug in a line-level audio source through the stereo mini-jack inputs. Audiophiles will turn up their noses at this approach, but in fact the results are impressive. It's 16 bit 44.1KHz (CD quality). I have plenty of studio experience, but **** if I can hear any difference between that lash-up connection and a high-quality USB interface.

Pete

[alohachris]

Aloha,

I highly recommend a Mac-based digital recording system. After 2-1/2 years! of learning about and trying out 12 different DAWS, a brief false start with the crappy/limited/wonky PTLE, I made a total change last November and got a new iMac/Logic Pro 9 DAW/Apogee Duet Interface/ Glyph storage external HD system. Not a single problem or crash to date with any project!

"Compatibility & Everything works!" Those are the most frequently sung praises you hear about a Mac system - which is completely integrated for both software and hardware by the manufacturers. The result is fewer crashes and incompatibilities and more time with your projects.

I'm using this system to archive a life in music - for a resultant giveaway set of CD's, non-commercial gifts for friends and family - in the many genres I play and sing and love. I needed a system that would allow me to create rather than tweek and this one surely does.

One thing to really consider, if you buy a new Apple computer and Logic, for $99 you can sign up for a year of one-to-one and group training in Logic through your local Apple store - the One-to-One Program. It's the best value in learning ANY DAW that I could imagine!

I'm five months deep into it now, learning workflows for tracking, editing, mixing, and mastering from a certified Logic pro. (Hint: I prefer the one-to-one training rather than groups in those noisy stores). Check that program out! I've been getting some pretty professional sounding results that please even my discerning ears and tolerances.

Of course, once you have your basic DAW setup, you should put most of your money into studio/room treatment, and front end stuff like great studio mics (I have many: AKG 460's, Schoeps CMC641's, Mojave MA200's, Peluso 2247's, , etc. for guitar and voice) and pres (Pendulum SPS-1, Avalon 737). And of course a pair of excellent near-field monitors as well for mixing (saving up for some Adam A7's as we speak).

In terms of depth, I've only scratched the surface of Logic 9 because I'm a two-track at a time, live mix kind of guy. I PLAY music and don't create music out of samples. I'm an old school player, not a would-be new school producer. My needs are simple. I don't care about loops, MIDI, drums, bass, etc. because I play or add it myself live through a mic.

Still, Logic 9 (which is now 64-bit capable) has given me everything I could ever want in terms of quality, comfortable workflows and stability.

Plus the Apogee Duet is a really super two-track interface with great preamps included , negating the need for a higher end preamp right away - though I do have a couple. I'll probably get an Apogee Ensemble if I need to record more tracks at a time - same great sound and compatibility with the iMac and Logic 9. So far, no need.

So, try out Ableton and all the other DAWS. Find the one that feels right to your sensibilities and touch, as I have, and then stick with it. But for compatibility and a full service professional DAW that can give you what you're looking for in acoustic guitar and vocal sound? Check out an Apple/Logic/Apogee system.

alohachris

[Bob Womack]

I live 1/3 of my life on a DAW and now have extensive experience on both PC and Mac platforms. I'm on my fourth hardware/software platform at this point. After I spent seventeen years on 24 track analog, finishing up with an SSL 4048 console and Sony APR-24, my company tried Avid Audiostation on Mac (the predecessor of Protools), followed by Fairlight MFX-3 on a proprietary, five-processor platform, then Nuendo on PC. We currently run three Mac dual quadcores running Nuendo that are the primary DAWs used for all recording chores including multitrack Audio Post Production for video, multitrack music, editing, and mastering. We have two PCs used to record live events. My Mac works with interfaces offering 32 track I/O. My computer experience began on IBM mainframes with punch cards in 1974 and went through Digital Equipment Corporation PDP1104s with reel to reel data drives, Hewlett Packard mainframes, a Timex Sinclair, Atari eight and sixteen bit computers, PCs and Macs.

Enough background. The point here is that I didn't just roll off the turnip truck when it comes to computers and audio. What do I think of Mac-based DAWs?

It's just another platform. Every platform has its pluses and minuses. People say that the Mac is more reliable, easier, more straightforward, etc. Me? We've been in the Mac platform for about a year and have already had to transition to new audio interface hardware due to reliability and utility issues. We've spent a year tweaking our Mac's to get them as reliable as the previous PC platform. To be fair, it took a year to get the PCs reliable as well. We've had multiple hard drives crash. We've had units simply loose their OS and have to be formatted from the ground up. We've had units that required being rebooted four or five times in the morning everyday just to get started. We've had units routinely loose USB and Firewire connectivity.

It's just another platform. It does fine, once you shake out all the kinks. Meanwhile, the Mac devotees stand around grinning and bobbing their heads while my machine is being serviced to make it work again, and say, "Isn't this 100% better than a PC?" Whatever. It works.

Bob

[Steve Berger]

I recently began transitioning to recording on my iMAC. Previously I was using a standalone Tascam DP-02 unit, and before that a standalone Roland VS-840 machine.

Although I was usually pleased with the results I obtained with the Tascam and Roland units, the LED screens on these units were way too tiny for me to use comfortably. So my primary motivation for moving to computer based recording was the ability to use a large monitor to actually see what I was doing.

My recording needs are fairly simple as I mainly play acoustic fingerstyle songs and some singer-songwriter tunes. I'm currently using the following MAC-based setup which works great for me.

- iMAC (21" monitor)
- Garageband
- GTech G-Drive Q
- Apogee Duet FW Interface
- Rode NT4 stereo mic for guitar
- Rode NT2A mic for vocals
- Adam A7 near-field monitors
- Sound Seat

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by makikogi

I don't know why in the world pro tools is the industry standard.

I would venture to that is primarily do, to two things.
First= it was First or one of the first to move away from a Midi sequencing based platform and Arrange the software look and feel much more like multi trac tape recording. Having been designed by former Apple Techs etc. who also happened to have been recording engineers from the tape days. Which simply made it more familiar feeling to audio engineers.

Second= again first to really take digital to a usable format for pro studios in the HD format . Which led to to that being the predominate (in terms of numbers by a large percentage) system use in pro facilities.

That is really the reason, the logistics of right time and place
Today there are certainly a number of very usable platforms

I personally choose mac simply because at the time I was getting into digital recording ( 2000) I felt that both the Mac machines and software were less problematic,I could afford the additional $ of mac, the software often took 1 to 2 less actual steps, to boot and move around in and less prone to virus if on the web. I really do not know if all these factors are still the case .

[alohachris]

Aloha Bob,

I too resent the Mac/PC battles that rage online ad nauseum and avoid them. I am certainly not a Mac bigot. In fact, this iMac is just the second Mac I've ever owned. I just offered my rationale for going the Mac/Logic/Apogee route for compatibility and stability, which for me, has truly been the case so far.

As you say ALL DAWs have plusses and minusses. The trick for players is being able to quickly - and cheaply - discern which will work for them. I offered one that works for me - without problems.

I'm not a professional recording engineer but have been a pro gigger for 46 years. I do have a pro's ears for acoustic guitar sound and have high standards. It is difficult to capture (record) that sound most of us have in our heads, which is why I avoided self-recording mostly - until suddenly, it's time to archive my music. Logic 9 allows me to do it at home.

PTLE and PC's did not work up to my standards (I'm sure HD would but it's too expensive for me). Mac/Logic 9 have. Logic IS just another DAW. But for the mostly guitar players here at this site, who are looking for simple solutions and applications in a recording system, I highly recommend Apple/Logic 9/ Apogee. There ARE simpler solutions Zooms, Bosses, Tascam 388's, Audacity, GB, etc.) that most will prefer. But Logic should be looked into, if only for its full-on pro features, stability, compatibility and integration. That's all I suggest.

I really think that players who wish to record should try out ALL DAW's before buying. What I've found is that DAW's are like studio vocal mics - very user specific. Free samples abound online.

A Hui Hou!
alohachris

[Bob Womack]

Aloha Chris,

It was a case of bad timing - I wasn't responding to you in particular. Sorry. If you've found a computer you like, it's a wondrous thing.

Bob

[BLenmark]

One week into this project and I have made some significant progress. I have been using a borrowed Mac Book Pro, and really like it. I was able to integrate some of my existing components and came up with some interesting sounds. After loading the drivers from Line 6, I was able to use my POD XT for guitar input. I found that the Mac has 2 USB inputs, so I could use a cheap MIDI controller to try some keyboard effects. I was very happy with the quality of the tracks. Lots of key learnings along the way, but the results have been worth the effort and very gratifying. I now feel my limits are not in the technical aspects of the recording, but in the artistic.

I have also enrolled in a digital audio recording class, so more to follow. I need to learn more about drum loops, bass lines, persussion. Editing, mixing, and output/publishing will come after, perhaps.

Thanks for all the guidance!

[Ty Ford]

I'd bypass USB and go right to Firewire because of USB latency.

I use Pro Tools LE, Soundtrack Pro and Garage Band on two different Macs.

I don't think the differences between PCs and Macs are that significant anymore.

I do make a point of having system and apps on one drive and media on a separate drive. Get the fastest computer you can afford with as much RAM as you can afford.

Regards,

Ty Ford

[Ty Ford]

Originally Posted by Bob Womack

We've been in the Mac platform for about a year and have already had to transition to new audio interface hardware due to reliability and utility issues. We've spent a year tweaking our Mac's to get them as reliable as the previous PC platform. To be fair, it took a year to get the PCs reliable as well. We've had multiple hard drives crash. We've had units simply loose their OS and have to be formatted from the ground up. We've had units that required being rebooted four or five times in the morning everyday just to get started. We've had units routinely loose USB and Firewire connectivity.

Bob

Holy crap Bob!,

Although I've been using a Mac since 1986, I started w/a dedicated PC based workstation and eventually moved to a Mac-based Digidesign DIGI 001, then 002, then 003, running Pro Tools LE.

You must have a curse on you to have had that much trouble. I have never seen the kind of trouble you're talking about with my Mac SE, SE30, Quadra 840 AV, G3, G4, G5, Mac Pro or Ti Book.

Regards,

Ty Ford

[Kurt]

Originally Posted by Ty Ford

Holy crap Bob!, ...You must have a curse on you to have had that much trouble.

I'd have to agree with Ty: You're cursed. My first Mac was a 512e (yep, a whole half-meg of memory!) in 1985, and I've had Macs at home and at the office (graphic design) concurrently ever since. In that time, I've had but one crash (hard drive on an old Mac Quadra, circa 1990).

When Windows first came out, I referred to it as painting black stripes on a white quarter horse and calling it a zebra. These days, though, I'd agree with most that the platforms are quite similar. That said, I'm running Mac/Logic/Apogee and couldn't be happier. When you've had 25 years of relative stability, ease of use, and an intuitive interface, it's difficult to let go.

[Bob Womack]

Actually, a certain amount of our difficulties is probably a result of the complexity of the rigs we are running. All are running three-head video (two GUI monitors and an HD video monitor), interact with two networks for file exchange, and use Firewire connections to their external audio interfaces. Two have USB connections that run external control surfaces and two use Ethernet connections for secondary controls as well. The unit I work the most with has the CPU remoted into the machine room to avoid fan noise in the control room so monitors, controllers, keyboard, and mouse are all on extenders. When you add in three audio interfaces that offer 48 channels of I/O, hardware plug-in cards, and two software security dongles, you've got enough junque hanging off the CPU that you have to expect it to generate a few free radicals. And we haven't covered interface with the AES router yet...

Bob