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  #16  
Old 03-06-2018, 11:40 AM
cmd612 cmd612 is offline
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Are you holding the guitar in a classical position? I find it easy to thumb wrap with the guitar closer to horizontal (as in that video) but almost impossible with the headstock higher.
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  #17  
Old 03-06-2018, 08:21 PM
Pitar Pitar is offline
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Originally Posted by dkstott View Post
I'm not referring to the F chord thumb wrap.

I just haven't been able to get my thumb to wrap around the fretboard like this amazing player.

Any suggestions other than a surgical thumb extension??

https://youtu.be/4J4qDWP2gO4
I suggest you don't evolve this poor technique and instead place the pad of your thumb on the centerline of the back of the neck. People who use this technique effectively cannot do many other things because they have condemned the hand to a grasping hold on the neck. The time and effort to grasp and release the neck is the difference between inefficiency and efficiency of the player.
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  #18  
Old 03-07-2018, 04:58 AM
JonPR JonPR is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmd612 View Post
Are you holding the guitar in a classical position? I find it easy to thumb wrap with the guitar closer to horizontal (as in that video) but almost impossible with the headstock higher.
That's because you're not supposed to in classical position. Classical guitar - however complicated it gets - never requires the thumb to come over the top. Of course the classical neck is wide and flat, making thumb wrap even less practical, and even more inhibiting on finger movement on the fretboard. There are good practical reasons why thumb wrap is banned in classical guitar!

Naturally, none of this applies to steel-string guitar held on the right leg, or to certain non-classical fret hand techniques which actively require the thumb over, at least to mute the 6th string.
But it's always worth investigating whether something you play with thumb wrap (fretting the 6th) might be better without (more efficient in the long run). It's not a technique to be adopted simply to avoid barres, for example. Often it's a result of holding the guitar in the wrong position to begin with: neck too low, or too far forward (easy to do with guitar on right leg).
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  #19  
Old 03-07-2018, 06:22 AM
cmd612 cmd612 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonPR View Post
There are good practical reasons why thumb wrap is banned in classical guitar!

Naturally, none of this applies to steel-string guitar held on the right leg, or to certain non-classical fret hand techniques which actively require the thumb over, at least to mute the 6th string.
I agree with all of this, but it's also physically difficult to perform the kind of wrist contortion it'd take to thumb wrap with an elevated headstock, even on a steel-string-guitar, as opposed to the left hand position in the video the OP posted.

I asked because (especially after I saw the classical at the top of the OP's signature), I thought maybe guitar position was why he felt like he needs surgical thumb extensions. If he IS holding the guitar in a neck-up position, adopting a lowered headstock position might be an easier solution.

Last edited by cmd612; 03-07-2018 at 06:29 AM.
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  #20  
Old 03-07-2018, 08:57 AM
dkstott dkstott is offline
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I have begun to play this piece on my Cordoba GK Pro. But I can't do that thumb wrap. So I've reinvented Jacques Stotzem's fingerings to be able to play it.
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  #21  
Old 03-07-2018, 10:32 PM
funkapus funkapus is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitar View Post
I suggest you don't evolve this poor technique and instead place the pad of your thumb on the centerline of the back of the neck. People who use this technique effectively cannot do many other things because they have condemned the hand to a grasping hold on the neck. The time and effort to grasp and release the neck is the difference between inefficiency and efficiency of the player.
Rev. Gary Davis played many challenging chords with a thumb wrap, and I don't buy the suggestion that he was a victim of poor technique. How do you play this moveable dominant 7th -- 323x31 -- without wrapping the thumb around to catch the 6th string? How do you play this moveable dominant 7th -- 332313 -- without wrapping the thumb around to catch the 5th and 6th strings?
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  #22  
Old 03-18-2018, 10:19 AM
backdoc backdoc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SprintBob View Post
Thumb wrap is sooo powerful as a tool for fingerstyle because it typically allows you to play the notes you need from an F chord shape without doing a barre. Seemed very hard at first but glad I have put in the effort on it. My teacher really pushed me to develop the skill.
I see many folks say that you can stick with it and learn, but some folks like me simply have fingers too short to make it happen. I laugh when other players complain about short fingers and then I have them put their hand up to mine for comparison. Their fingers are almost always longer than mine. I also broke the last joint in my left thumb in college playing football and it was surgically pinned and has very little movement.

I can mute the low E with my thumb, but fretting is out of the question. Sucks because I am not strong at Barre chords but I am becoming better with practice. The thumb wrap is a great tool and I am hampered by not being able to do so, but it can be worked around.
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  #23  
Old 03-18-2018, 10:35 AM
M Hayden M Hayden is offline
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It’s not really “wrapping” the thumb, per se, at least for notes on the 6th string.

It’s hooking the joint onto the edge and trapping the 6th string. When I do it my thumb is pointed away from the neck at an angle.

Imho, this technique is about minimizing stress on the left hand...when you’re playing for hours, every little bit helps! And yes, I can and do play with classical technique when merited, too, with a guiding maxim of “Truth is what works” as William James says, tongue-in-cheek.
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