ES2 Update

[krmitbug]

So I was struggling with the new system.... especially when playing out in larger venues.... compared to the ES1 in my 814... the ES2 in my new 816 had troubles with feedback... used an external eq to fix but the sound wasn't good.

Sent the unit back to Taylor.. they installed an ES 1 system.. guitar is much better for me now.........

[skiltrip]

I'm curious. What did they do with the screw holes in the bridge?


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[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by krmitbug

So I was struggling with the new system.... especially when playing out in larger venues.... compared to the ES1 in my 814... the ES2 in my new 816 had troubles with feedback... used an external eq to fix but the sound wasn't good.

Sent the unit back to Taylor.. they installed an ES 1 system.. guitar is much better for me now.........

Did the Taylor techs find anything wrong with the ES2 in your 816? That's a very bold move switching from the ES2 to the ES1 IMO. I think I would have been more willing to just return the 816 instead of retrofitting it with the ES1, which is basically on its way out. I too am curious as to what they did with the holes in your bridge?

The problem is that your guitar just dropped significantly in value having done this. I am not trying to sound rude, I am just trying to understand the decision.

By the way, how much did that cost you? I remember when my original ES1 stopped working, I contacted Taylor just to see if they could fix it. I found their customer service to be lacking compared to other brands but I found out that they could update it but at a cost of $300-500. I found this funny because Taylor admitted that the original ES had flaws which is why they upgraded to version 2 and then 3. Under warranty I should have had the upgrade for free.

[Vancebo]

I have never owned an ES anything system. Played several of each. I never liked the ES 1 except the last version was very close. It needs the air a mic brings.

I have been trying several ES 2 equipped guitars. Any I can get my hands on. My local dealer lets me take any of their guitars home. I have been fascinated by the natural sound of the ES2. I borrowed an 816 for a gig Friday with a quartet. Piano, 2 acoustics and a Cajon. The difference was very apparent. My buddy on acoustic was playing the old Doyle Dykes signature Taylor with the Baggs system that is piezo based. He was plugged into a zoom acoustic pedal that had eq and effects such as chorus, compression, reverb. Then he was playing through his Roland amp. Most would say it was a good and effective guitar sound. Not my cup of tea but good. I was playing the 816 into the Baggs session pedal into my Schertler Unico. Both guitars could have been played as loud as we wanted. Both had plenty of bass and trebles. Most would say both guitars would have sounded good. However, both of us liked mine better. When the playing got heavy his guitar distorted like what we expect from most piezo based systems. Mine held together perfectly. We all know what we despise about the typical piezo or mag based systems, They don't sound either natural or acoustic. This guitar to my ears sounded fabulous. The tone was natural and clean and sounded more like a guitar.

The knock on the ES2 has been that it can sound too midrangy or woofy toned. In my experience that is true with some of them. I found the solution to be very simple. Select the right frequency and don't be afraid to do a deep cut. My Schertler's mid control seems to be centered on the right band of frequencies that works really well with the ES2. Plus it's resonance knob that is centered at 180hz also helps get rid of some of the honk. This also works well with my Lyric. The result is a very natural uber clean sound. Again, not what most players would expect. I could have turned that tone up to earsplitting levels and would have had no feedback in a very reverberant room. No distortion, all clean sound.

The bottom line is that I would rather start with a sound that was more natural and then deal with the issues to make it balanced and present well in a room than start with a bad sound and try and make it sound more natural. It's a very different concept.

On Friday I came closer to be willing to own a guitar with a permanently installed system. I gave this long story in hopes to be helpful to others who are also dealing with the same issues. I think it's solvable and the results are well worth it b

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by krmitbug

So I was struggling with the new system.... especially when playing out in larger venues.... compared to the ES1 in my 814... the ES2 in my new 816 had troubles with feedback... used an external eq to fix but the sound wasn't good.

Sent the unit back to Taylor.. they installed an ES 1 system.. guitar is much better for me now.........

I like the ES2 but I applaud you because I like folks who, after weighing matters, aren't afraid of acting to try to resolve a problem or irritation.

[krmitbug]

Taylor replaced the bridge...looks the same as my ES1 equipped guitar..... no holes.
The cost was just below $500.....
I wasn't worried about the value of the guitar... I intend to keep it so I thought of this as no different than someone having a guitar "tweaked" after a purchase....
I also wasn't worried about the ES1 being phased out... My 814 is a 2004 model, it still works fine so it seems that they last a long while.....

I did have the ES2 checked by the shop I bought it from and by Taylor... I had a couple of very good conversations with the Taylor shop before I sent it in.... Adjusted the bridge as they recommended... still wasn't was i was looking (or listening for)....

I really just wanted to move on and enjoy the guitar.. Taylor repair was great... I was told that they have had this type of request a couple of times before...

[Doubleneck]

Originally Posted by Vancebo

I have never owned an ES anything system. Played several of each. I never liked the ES 1 except the last version was very close. It needs the air a mic brings.

I have been trying several ES 2 equipped guitars. Any I can get my hands on. My local dealer lets me take any of their guitars home. I have been fascinated by the natural sound of the ES2. I borrowed an 816 for a gig Friday with a quartet. Piano, 2 acoustics and a Cajon. The difference was very apparent. My buddy on acoustic was playing the old Doyle Dykes signature Taylor with the Baggs system that is piezo based. He was plugged into a zoom acoustic pedal that had eq and effects such as chorus, compression, reverb. Then he was playing through his Roland amp. Most would say it was a good and effective guitar sound. Not my cup of tea but good. I was playing the 816 into the Baggs session pedal into my Schertler Unico. Both guitars could have been played as loud as we wanted. Both had plenty of bass and trebles. Most would say both guitars would have sounded good. However, both of us liked mine better. When the playing got heavy his guitar distorted like what we expect from most piezo based systems. Mine held together perfectly. We all know what we despise about the typical piezo or mag based systems, They don't sound either natural or acoustic. This guitar to my ears sounded fabulous. The tone was natural and clean and sounded more like a guitar.

The knock on the ES2 has been that it can sound too midrangy or woofy toned. In my experience that is true with some of them. I found the solution to be very simple. Select the right frequency and don't be afraid to do a deep cut. My Schertler's mid control seems to be centered on the right band of frequencies that works really well with the ES2. Plus it's resonance knob that is centered at 180hz also helps get rid of some of the honk. This also works well with my Lyric. The result is a very natural uber clean sound. Again, not what most players would expect. I could have turned that tone up to earsplitting levels and would have had no feedback in a very reverberant room. No distortion, all clean sound.

The bottom line is that I would rather start with a sound that was more natural and then deal with the issues to make it balanced and present well in a room than start with a bad sound and try and make it sound more natural. It's a very different concept.

On Friday I came closer to be willing to own a guitar with a permanently installed system. I gave this long story in hopes to be helpful to others who are also dealing with the same issues. I think it's solvable and the results are well worth it b

Could quite a lot of the difference be your playing through one of the best acoustic amps made with the absolute latest studio pedal technology and your friend is not?

[Vancebo]

Originally Posted by Doubleneck

Could quite a lot of the difference be your playing through one of the best acoustic amps made with the absolute latest studio pedal technology and your friend is not?

Well, sure it could be. Next time I should trade him axes and see what happens.

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by Vancebo

I have never owned an ES anything system. Played several of each. I never liked the ES 1 except the last version was very close. It needs the air a mic brings.

I have been trying several ES 2 equipped guitars. Any I can get my hands on. My local dealer lets me take any of their guitars home. I have been fascinated by the natural sound of the ES2. I borrowed an 816 for a gig Friday with a quartet. Piano, 2 acoustics and a Cajon. The difference was very apparent. My buddy on acoustic was playing the old Doyle Dykes signature Taylor with the Baggs system that is piezo based. He was plugged into a zoom acoustic pedal that had eq and effects such as chorus, compression, reverb. Then he was playing through his Roland amp. Most would say it was a good and effective guitar sound. Not my cup of tea but good. I was playing the 816 into the Baggs session pedal into my Schertler Unico. Both guitars could have been played as loud as we wanted. Both had plenty of bass and trebles. Most would say both guitars would have sounded good. However, both of us liked mine better. When the playing got heavy his guitar distorted like what we expect from most piezo based systems. Mine held together perfectly. We all know what we despise about the typical piezo or mag based systems, They don't sound either natural or acoustic. This guitar to my ears sounded fabulous. The tone was natural and clean and sounded more like a guitar.

The knock on the ES2 has been that it can sound too midrangy or woofy toned. In my experience that is true with some of them. I found the solution to be very simple. Select the right frequency and don't be afraid to do a deep cut. My Schertler's mid control seems to be centered on the right band of frequencies that works really well with the ES2. Plus it's resonance knob that is centered at 180hz also helps get rid of some of the honk. This also works well with my Lyric. The result is a very natural uber clean sound. Again, not what most players would expect. I could have turned that tone up to earsplitting levels and would have had no feedback in a very reverberant room. No distortion, all clean sound.

The bottom line is that I would rather start with a sound that was more natural and then deal with the issues to make it balanced and present well in a room than start with a bad sound and try and make it sound more natural. It's a very different concept.

On Friday I came closer to be willing to own a guitar with a permanently installed system. I gave this long story in hopes to be helpful to others who are also dealing with the same issues. I think it's solvable and the results are well worth it b

Thanks for sharing the post. It's nice to hear others having a good experience with the ES2 system. I've made no secret of the fact that I put all chips in with the ES2.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

Thanks for sharing the post. It's nice to hear others having a good experience with the ES2 system. I've made no secret of the fact that I put all chips in with the ES2.

How are you liking the 210 DLX compared to your higher end Taylor guitars? I am tempted to buy a 200 series just to get the ES2 and to use it as a gig guitar. I don't want the ES2 in the 810 that I am hoping to buy but it would be nice to have it in a 210.

[Joe F]

Yikes! $500.00 plus two way shipping! That's some serious coin for a pickup swap. Glad you like it though. I am still quite happy with the ES-1>Version 3 in my GAce-LTD. I had it upgraded from the original ES=1>Version 2. I got off a little cheaper though as I was able to order the parts and have it done locally by an authorized tech. Phew!

[martingitdave]

Petty,

I like it a lot! In fact, your reasoning is the same as mine. It is a replaceable, yet very good, guitar. Nice quality materials and workmanship. The upgraded bracing and the top are well designed. The gloss finish is attractive and it included the hard case. I use it outside, at open mics, some performances, and any place where I might not want to take an expensive instrument. The ES2 ultimately clinched it for me. The 200 DLX guitars are very worthwhile. If I were to try and quantify tone (impossible), I would say it has 85% of the tone of the 800 series. Relative to the 800s, it has slightly less sustain, overtones, and perhaps a smidgeon less volume. It sounds nearly identical plugged in.

I would urge you to try one.

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[Doubleneck]

After a little while I thought it's pretty amazing that Taylor ended up changing the bridge to change out the ES2 pickup system. Think about that for a moment is really easy to fly past this fact.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

Petty,

I like it a lot! In fact, your reasoning is the same as mine. It is a replaceable, yet very good, guitar. Nice quality materials and workmanship. The upgraded bracing and the top are well designed. The gloss finish is attractive and it included the hard case. I use it outside, at open mics, some performances, and any place where I might not want to take an expensive instrument. The ES2 ultimately clinched it for me. The 200 DLX guitars are very worthwhile. If I were to try and quantify tone (impossible), I would say it has 85% of the tone of the 800 series. Relative to the 800s, it has slightly less sustain, overtones, and perhaps a smidgeon less volume. It sounds nearly identical plugged in.

I would urge you to try one.

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Thanks for the info! I am going to keep my open for one, especially a used one. They are at a great price point and could become a great gigging guitar. I am finding more and more that I wish I had a gigging guitar that I don't have to worry about as much. It's so easy at my shows to bang my instruments around. I am very, very careful with them but I do the sound for our band and often find myself stressed out and rushing around. That's when careless mistakes happen!

[skiltrip]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

Thanks for the info! I am going to keep my open for one, especially a used one. They are at a great price point and could become a great gigging guitar. I am finding more and more that I wish I had a gigging guitar that I don't have to worry about as much. It's so easy at my shows to bang my instruments around. I am very, very careful with them but I do the sound for our band and often find myself stressed out and rushing around. That's when careless mistakes happen!

The latest love of my life is my 416e, but I'm strongly considering picking up a 214ce deluxe sunburst as my next guitar.

I am another one that adores the ES2. I usually just hate acoustic pickups across the board, but I actually enjoy playing thru an amp now, even at home, just for pure enjoyment.


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