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  #1  
Old 02-22-2018, 01:04 AM
Rick Shaw Rick Shaw is offline
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Default What is this thing?

This is an old family guitar that was around the house when I was a youngster. I have acquired it and would love to have some help identifying it. My plan is to restore it to playing condition. Its not a collector but making a bridge that is similar to the original is my intention. Any ideas? This is my first post so I hope I added the pictures correctly.

Thanks in advance




https://images2.imgbox.com/7c/a3/QnT7JFJk_o.jpg
https://images2.imgbox.com/dc/21/owzdjQKw_o.jpg

Last edited by Rick Shaw; 02-22-2018 at 10:10 AM.
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Old 02-22-2018, 02:19 AM
ChalkLitIScream ChalkLitIScream is offline
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For me, the link doesn't work. Perhaps change privacy settings?
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Old 02-22-2018, 06:10 AM
Athens Athens is offline
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Not on FB. Is the picture on a hosting site that you can link to?
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Old 02-22-2018, 09:43 AM
Rick Shaw Rick Shaw is offline
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https://images2.imgbox.com/7c/a3/QnT7JFJk_o.jpg
https://images2.imgbox.com/dc/21/owzdjQKw_o.jpg

Last edited by Rick Shaw; 02-22-2018 at 10:10 AM.
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Old 02-22-2018, 10:16 AM
Puerto Player Puerto Player is offline
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Did you look inside with a mirror and see if there is any tag or markings up under the top. They used to do that.
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Old 02-22-2018, 11:30 AM
Rick Shaw Rick Shaw is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puerto Player View Post
Did you look inside with a mirror and see if there is any tag or markings up under the top. They used to do that.
Yep, I looked, nothing there.
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Old 02-22-2018, 11:36 AM
L20A L20A is offline
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Looks like it could be a classical bridge shape.
You should be able to get a replacement from Stumac.
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Old 02-22-2018, 11:36 AM
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Almost looks "homemade." Were there tuners on that headstock? It looks like a blank.
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Old 02-22-2018, 11:48 AM
Rick Shaw Rick Shaw is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M19 View Post
Almost looks "homemade." Were there tuners on that headstock? It looks like a blank.
I guess it could be but knowing where it came from, I would be surprised if it was homemade. Its got a one piece ply back and no truss rod. I do have the tuning machines and they are standard 3x3 on a plate. There are no bushings which makes me think of how they were made during WWII.
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Old 02-22-2018, 12:36 PM
Rick Shaw Rick Shaw is offline
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Leaning towards Sherwood (50's). Made by Kay for Montgomery Ward.
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Old 02-22-2018, 01:30 PM
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Bob Womack Bob Womack is offline
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Shape reminds me a bit of this:



However, the meteor was a hollow-body electric.

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Old 02-22-2018, 05:57 PM
Wade Hampton Wade Hampton is offline
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It's definitely a factory-made steel string acoustic guitar that someone somewhere along the line stripped of its original finish.

The oval soundhole narrows things down a bit. There were scads of old mandolins with oval soundholes, but that feature is far less common on old guitars. Kay made this "Lyra" brand guitar with a similar soundhole and body shape:











Kay "Lyra" oval hole archtop

Now, that guitar is an archtop, not a flattop, but Kay, Harmony and Regal often made flattop guitars in the same molds they used for archtops.

Rick, what's the width of the lower bout at its widest point? Is the back flat or arched? Is there any evidence that there was once a tailpiece? If the guitar was originally intended to be used with a tailpiece and a movable bridge, there should be some holes where the tailpiece once attached.

This wouldn't be the first time I've seen an old tailpiece-equipped guitar that some hobbyist tried to convert to a pin bridge instrument. If the guitar was originally intended as a flattop pin bridge guitar, there should be a bridgeplate underneath where the bridge goes - does it have one? If it does, does the wood and glue appear to be as old as the rest of the interior of the guitar?

I hope this is of some help, even if it's only to help frame the discussion a bit more exactly.


Wade Hampton Miller
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Old 02-22-2018, 07:27 PM
Rick Shaw Rick Shaw is offline
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Good questions Wade. The bout is 17" across. The back is flat not arched and there is a bridge plate that looks original to color and glue residual. No indication of a tail piece at all, just a typical strap button hole. I will say that the Lyra sure looks similar.

Weird Pickguard don't you think?
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Old 02-22-2018, 10:15 PM
Wade Hampton Wade Hampton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Shaw View Post
Good questions Wade. The bout is 17" across. The back is flat not arched and there is a bridge plate that looks original to color and glue residual. No indication of a tail piece at all, just a typical strap button hole. I will say that the Lyra sure looks similar.
To me it appears as though Kay used the same body mold and basic template to make a flattop version of the same guitar. The Lyra guitar in the photos I found also has a 17" lower bout.

Since someone thoughtfully stripped away the original finish and the original headstock logo with it, we'll probably never know what brand name it was sold under. Not that it matters - that stuff was so ephemeral and changeable, even at the time when these guitars were current. If it got sold to one retailer it got called one name, if sold to another it was called something else entirely.

I think you can safely assume that the guitar is American-made, most likely in Chicago by Kay, and probably dates to the 1940's or 50's. But I don't think it's possible to get more specific than that unless somebody shows us some photos of an identical guitar that still has the original finish and headstock logo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Shaw View Post
Weird Pickguard don't you think?
On which guitar? The (slightly) elevated pickguard on the Lyra was fairly typical of archtop guitars during the period, though the way Kay did it was definitely a lowball, cheaper than cheap way to do it - I'm guessing there are spacers between the bottom of the pickguard and the top, probably felt washers. On Gibsons and other more expensive archtops, there is mounting hardware that elevates the pickguard.

As for the one on your family heirloom, well - it's not to my taste, and seemingly not yours, either. But if somebody started a refurb on that guitar during the 1950's, which seems likely, that pickguard wouldn't have raised an eyebrow back then. The 1950's were sort of the crescendo of the "big ugly pickguard era" in flattop guitars, particularly among country players:











˙˙˙

Now, look at these pickguards and note that they were factory-original from Gibson at the time:









˙˙˙

Seen from that perspective, it seems pretty clear that whoever made the pickguard on your family heirloom - whether some hobbyist or the folks at the factory that made the guitar - they were well within the aesthetics of their time.

Hope that makes sense.


Wade Hampton Miller
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Old 02-22-2018, 11:28 PM
EZK123 EZK123 is offline
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I'm kind of digging the soundhole shape on that Webb Pierce. . . very funky.
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