Redwood top vs Ceder

gtonesine · #1 02-21-2018, 01:41 PM

Anybody had experience with RW Goodall's comparing Redwood vs
Ceder Tops ?

Rosewood99 · #2 02-21-2018, 02:41 PM

Not with Goodall specifically but in general they are similar with redwood having more headroom.

SuperB23 · #3 02-21-2018, 02:46 PM

I've played 4 or 5 of each Cedar and Redwood topped Goodalls. The same rings true for any other manufacturer that they both respond fast and powerfully to a light touch making them great for fingerstyle playing. The have a rich more dark chocolate sound to them than spruce. They are a very soft wood that usually has to be cut just a bit thicker than a really stiff spruce like red spruce from what I've read.

I have a Redwood topped Goodall Standard that is just a crazy phenomenal fingerstyle instrument!!!!

Redwood can handle heavy strumming a bit better than Cedar and it doesn't break up as easily as cedar does.

gtonesine · #4 02-21-2018, 04:52 PM

feedback much appreciated ,

the only Goodall I have played had a
spruce top , it was over a year ago at McCabes and it sounded and played
better than any other acoustic I have played. If I were to get another acoustic it would be a Goodall with a Redwood or Ceder top. I did see a GCJ Redwood
top online at Eddie's guitars , I really like the looks of Redwood top on that
guitar

ChalkLitIScream · #5 02-21-2018, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtonesine

If I were to get another acoustic it would be a Goodall with a Redwood or Ceder top. I did see a GCJ Redwood
top online at Eddie's guitars , I really like the looks of Redwood top on that
guitar

FWIW, redwood seems to be widely inconsistent in regards to how it sounds as a finished guitar top. SInker redwood especially. However, it is a Goodall, so its safe to say the guitar will sound good regardless.

hairpuller · #6 02-21-2018, 05:19 PM

As the saying goes: Goodalls are all good.
scott

BluesKing777 · #7 02-21-2018, 05:39 PM

Has anybody here played a vintage steel string with a Cedar or Redwood top?

Did they make them?

My 25 year old Lowden S35 with Cedar over Tasmanian Blackwood is just delightful, so the mind wonders what an 80 year old would perhaps sound and play like.....

BluesKing777.

redir · #8 02-21-2018, 06:24 PM

The redwood has a nice rich red color to it and the cedar has more of a brown almost orange look.

tippy5 · #9 02-21-2018, 08:14 PM

I have had a couple redwood Goodall's. They are better than the 10 other makers / designs of redwood guitars that I have tried. The last SB luthier show had at least a half dozen. They were new guitars so to be respectful I had to keep that in mind. That being reality they still seemed to lack the depth of sound of my hundreds of hours of playing James Goodall redwood/IR guitars.

I have never owned a nice cedar guitar so I can't comment on comparisons but the Olson's and others online blow me away.

TBman · #10 02-21-2018, 08:16 PM

Good info......

jseth · #11 02-21-2018, 09:23 PM

I own a Goodall Grand Concert, redwood over mahogany, and it IS a STELLAR instrument, perfect for my style of play. As Bobby said, the top on mine is incredibly fast to respond; never have I played a guitar that the notes just JUMP out of with the lightest touch!

I use a flatpick and the remaining three fingers for both fingerpicking patterns and grabbing clusters of notes; the flatpick lets me play single note and slurred pairs easily and quickly.

I met James and his family when we both moved to Fort Bragg, CA. in 2009 - they, for the second time and me for my first. Over the next few years, I would drop by his shop two or three times a week and sit and play whatever guitars were "fresh off the bench"; it was a wonderful treat to have so many amazing guitars in my hands, even for a short time!

As such, James and Luke were quite accustomed to hearing me play and my own style and attack strength. I was curious about redwood tops and asked James about them when I first began to commission a build...

He told me that redwood gives a very fast transfer of sound, and tends to be a bit darker/softer sounding, but that it has enough headroom to hold up to more vigorous strumming, up to a point. Much more than cedar, according to him. He told me that if y attack strength was really firm up to hard, he wouldn't recommend a redwood top for me. At that time, he didn't like building with "sinker" redwood due to the extreme variation in tone it exhibits from one billet to the next and even within the same billet. At first, I wanted sinker because it looks so fabulous and individual, but I went with Master Grade redwood (I believe it is "old growth").

My Goodall was built in 2012, and I can tell you that in 5 1/2 years, the redwood has gotten a bit darker, while the mahogany is still taking it's time to darken. This is a guitar that likes to "woken up gently", meaning that it sounds lovely and rich after I play it lightly for time; after that, I can go ahead and play it as hard as I want and everything is "right there"...

In contrast, if I pick up the guitar and immediately start hitting it hard-ish, playing harder edged blues stuff, it just doesn't "want to". Both the tone and volume sound a bit "off" to me...

When the guitar is warmed up a bit, it has been strong enough to sit in an old-time/bluegrass jam session and cut through everything perfectly... this, vs. 2 fiddle players, 2 other guitarists, 2 banjos and a mandolin! Unamplified, of course... surprised me, to tell the truth.

As much as I love my GC, if I were to have James build me another, I would go for the Concert Jumbo size (CJ) with a Port Orford cedar top and probably a variant of rosewood for the back and sides...

I have played redwood topped guitars from 3 or 4 other builders, some really fine instruments, but they had no where near the fast response of mine, nor the roundness of tone (even up the neck on the high E string)... many of them (the Custom Shop Breedloves, in particular) had very small voices - great tone but low volume output. I've even played a few redwood topped guitars that were shrill and extremely bright - those were sinker tops. All this leads me to believe that redwood can be tricky for some builders... but James does a fantastic job with the wood.

jseth · #12 02-21-2018, 09:27 PM

and one more:

Alan Carruth · #13 02-22-2018, 10:47 AM

All woods vary in properties, of course; its a natural material, after all.

All of the good redwood I've gotten hhad density and stiffness that were in line with Sitka and Red spruce, but damping like cedar. It makes sense that it would sound like cedar but with more headroom.

Some redwood, particularly some of the 'salvage' or 'stump' material, is much different, with low stiffness along the grain and a tap tone like cardboard, instead of the musical ring of good redwood or cedar. I suspect that the stress that has built up in the base of these huge trees can actually bee too uch for the wood to withstand, leading to microscopic fractures and 'crushing' of the wood. This is backed up in one scholarly book I have on the built-in stress of trees. Take this with a grain of salt: the wonderful 'LS' redwood was salvage from a huge trunk, and the tops I've had of that were superb.

I have not seen enough 'sinker' redwood to be able to say much about it. A couple of pieces I've checked out were very high in density, and seem to have been soaked in some sort of chemical that stayed behind. I have read about a preservative treatment that was used out west in the construction of the trans-continental railroad, and wode if this might be something similar.

Again, wood is wood, annd varies more than many poeple think. There is no 'magic' species, but there are magic pieces of any species.

gtonesine · #14 02-22-2018, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jseth

I own a Goodall Grand Concert, redwood over mahogany, and it IS a STELLAR instrument, perfect for my style of play. As Bobby said, the top on mine is incredibly fast to respond; never have I played a guitar that the notes just JUMP out of with the lightest touch!

I use a flatpick and the remaining three fingers for both fingerpicking patterns and grabbing clusters of notes; the flatpick lets me play single note and slurred pairs easily and quickly.

I met James and his family when we both moved to Fort Bragg, CA. in 2009 - they, for the second time and me for my first. Over the next few years, I would drop by his shop two or three times a week and sit and play whatever guitars were "fresh off the bench"; it was a wonderful treat to have so many amazing guitars in my hands, even for a short time!

As such, James and Luke were quite accustomed to hearing me play and my own style and attack strength. I was curious about redwood tops and asked James about them when I first began to commission a build...

He told me that redwood gives a very fast transfer of sound, and tends to be a bit darker/softer sounding, but that it has enough headroom to hold up to more vigorous strumming, up to a point. Much more than cedar, according to him. He told me that if y attack strength was really firm up to hard, he wouldn't recommend a redwood top for me. At that time, he didn't like building with "sinker" redwood due to the extreme variation in tone it exhibits from one billet to the next and even within the same billet. At first, I wanted sinker because it looks so fabulous and individual, but I went with Master Grade redwood (I believe it is "old growth").

My Goodall was built in 2012, and I can tell you that in 5 1/2 years, the redwood has gotten a bit darker, while the mahogany is still taking it's time to darken. This is a guitar that likes to "woken up gently", meaning that it sounds lovely and rich after I play it lightly for time; after that, I can go ahead and play it as hard as I want and everything is "right there"...

In contrast, if I pick up the guitar and immediately start hitting it hard-ish, playing harder edged blues stuff, it just doesn't "want to". Both the tone and volume sound a bit "off" to me...

When the guitar is warmed up a bit, it has been strong enough to sit in an old-time/bluegrass jam session and cut through everything perfectly... this, vs. 2 fiddle players, 2 other guitarists, 2 banjos and a mandolin! Unamplified, of course... surprised me, to tell the truth.

As much as I love my GC, if I were to have James build me another, I would go for the Concert Jumbo size (CJ) with a Port Orford cedar top and probably a variant of rosewood for the back and sides...

I have played redwood topped guitars from 3 or 4 other builders, some really fine instruments, but they had no where near the fast response of mine, nor the roundness of tone (even up the neck on the high E string)... many of them (the Custom Shop Breedloves, in particular) had very small voices - great tone but low volume output. I've even played a few redwood topped guitars that were shrill and extremely bright - those were sinker tops. All this leads me to believe that redwood can be tricky for some builders... but James does a fantastic job with the wood.

Jseth,

Considering what a great guitar the GC Goodall Redwood top turned out to be , if you would explain in a little
more in detail why the Port Oxford is on your list ? Is it that you already have a Redwood top Goodall ? The Concert Jumbo
seems like a great option for a Goodall , I also think the venetian cut like yours is another great option. Thanks for posting
the photo of your great looking Goodall , and your info.